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Lii Audio F15 v 18

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Buddelbaby

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Is the Lii Audio F18 even better than the F15? Or does the F15 also have disadvantages compared to the F15?
 
What is your use case? What is your reason for going with a full range speaker?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Speakers w/Full-range Drivers

New member here, though long-time beneficiary of the forum, particularly DAC reviews (I have a Topping E70 and Okto DAC8 in two of my systems). Anyway, with regard to speakers, over the last few years I’ve increasingly been drawn to the sound of crossover-less (or minimalist) designs by...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
 
A wider soundstage, or what are the advantages of the Li F18 driver compared to the F15? I have a 20 square meter room and already have a 15-inch subwoofer lying around that I'd like to combine with it. I'm just wondering whether the F18 or the F15 would be better. I've read that the F15 is supposed to sound more spacious and detailed, but the soundstage is smaller?
 
Buddelbaby said:
A wider soundstage, or what are the advantages of the Li F18 driver compared to the F15? I have a 20 square meter room and already have a 15-inch subwoofer lying around that I'd like to combine with it. I'm just wondering whether the F18 or the F15 would be better. I've read that the F15 is supposed to sound more spacious and detailed, but the soundstage is smaller?
Click to expand...
I have quite a lot of experience with full-range DIY systems (just search for my posts in the DIY section; I had also built 12" and 15" full range systems)

An 18" full-range driver will not give you a wide soundstage and neither will a 15"
A 15" full range driver will start to beam from approx. 900Hz and a 18" will do the same from approx. 750Hz. This means that all the frequencies above 700-900Hz will be 'projected' to the listening position as direct sound. There will be negligible amount of dispersion = negligible amount of reflections
This will result in a collapsed soundstage, meaning that the sides of the soundstage will 'be cut' at where you have your speakers; you will not have a stage expanding sideways beyond your speakers.
However, anything you have in-between the speakers will be laser sharp and extremely holographic
That is one of the trade-offs of using big full range drivers.

Another trade-off (and for me this was the deal-breaker) is that when you EQ them to sound flat in the MLP (to compensate for their high-frequency droop) you will nicely correct the direct sound but since their direct sound and reflected sound are hugely different (for the reasons mentioned in the paragraph above), the whole system will sound pretty harsh and if you measure them you will see highly elevated distortion figures above 5kHz already (or starting even lower).

I don't want to discourage you from these drivers; I am just managing your expectations from a technical (+my personal experience) perspective
 
I just read this, see the link below.

Is there more to sound than measurements ?

Glow in the Dark Audio--Tube Amps

Glow in the Dark Audio showcases Kevin Davis’ personal collection of small-scale, DIY and one of a kind hifi audio gear, with a focus on single ended and push pull tube amplifiers and full range open baffle speakers.
glowinthedarkaudio.com glowinthedarkaudio.com
 
First of all make sure you're buying the original from Lii Audio Hifi, not Lii Song. (I'm surprised Caintuck Audio links to the Song knockoffs). Second, the 15" Fast 15 is so good with a sub that there's no need to pay for more. Disregard the naysayers as none own them.
 
Glow in the dark uses tube amps, is that perhaps his secret to the sound quality ?
I was going to buy a wiim ultra.

Also glow in the dark mention nothing about his source. I assume he is not into streaming.
 
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I previously had the original Lii Audio F15 in Caintuck Baffles and they were good. Bass was good but the highs were a bit harsh at times. I ended up selling them.

Then I got the Lii Audio 15 inch field coils and the 18 inch coaxials. I have them in a folded wing open baffle configuration (I swap them in and out using the same baffles). They are much better than the F15s.

The 18 inch coaxials deal with the harsh high frequencies pretty effectively and have a huge presence. But the 15 inch field coils sound much more nuanced than the 18 inch.
 

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I don't hear any harshness from my F15s, at all, but used to when using them with a tube amp. I've been eyeballing those field coils wondering if they would be worth the trouble. I'm old and old school, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
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Thank you for your sharings, very interesting.

My idea was to create 2 systems :

A WiiM with 3EA7 amplis for my ,normal speakers

and a second set :
One only Open Baffle 15 or 18"
connected without any crossovers to a tube amp
and a CD.

Of course I will try the WiiM 3EF7 as well with these open
baffles, and this is also where I could introduce a sub
thanks to the WiiM dedicated sub outlet.

When you talk about these speakers, if I understand
rightly there is Lii Audio HiFi with prices way high except
for one 15" full drive that is about 500€.
Here : https://liiaudiohifi.com/catalog

Then there is Lii Audio Europe Lii Song
imported to a place in Spain only
6 hours away from me.
Here : https://lii-audio-europe.com/

Is there a real difference ?

On the Lii Europe website there are 3 drivers :

F15 at 550€
F15 FAST at 880€
Platinum 15 at 2900€ to much for me :)

Thank you.
 
Nice. Well, I don't know if there is a difference as I haven't heard the Song version. I try to support originators myself.

I use a sub with the F15s as they have little output under 50Hz. It makes all the difference. This set up has to be one of the greatest quality to price ratio speaker solutions in audio, and I have heard what are considered the best.
 
Vandemann said:
I don't hear any harshness from my F15s, at all, but used to when using them with a tube amp. I've been eyeballing those field coils wondering if they would be worth the trouble. I'm old and old school, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Click to expand...

Vandemann, if you don't mind me asking, how do you have your F15s set up? In OB? Are you driving them with solid state?

I think the field coils are a definite step up from the F15s (but the field coils have this very tacky looking phase plug that turns red (you can see in in my photo) when the field coil's PSU is turned on). Otherwise, the sound is really sublime. The field coils are quite a bit more expensive but the PSU does come with it. I'm sure there are better PSUs out there but I've never felt the urge to "upgrade" the PSU.

For what it's worth, I haven't felt the urge to upgrade any component of my system since I got the field coils and coaxials.

RaymondFromThePyrénéés said:
Thank you for your sharings, very interesting.

My idea was to create 2 systems :

A WiiM with 3EA7 amplis for my ,normal speakers

and a second set :
One only Open Baffle 15 or 18"
connected without any crossovers to a tube amp
and a CD.

Of course I will try the WiiM 3EF7 as well with these open
baffles, and this is also where I could introduce a sub
thanks to the WiiM dedicated sub outlet.

When you talk about these speakers, if I understand
rightly there is Lii Audio HiFi with prices way high except
for one 15" full drive that is about 500€.
Here : https://liiaudiohifi.com/catalog

Then there is Lii Audio Europe Lii Song
imported to a place in Spain only
6 hours away from me.
Here : https://lii-audio-europe.com/

Is there a real difference ?

On the Lii Europe website there are 3 drivers :

F15 at 550€
F15 FAST at 880€
Platinum 15 at 2900€ to much for me :)

Thank you.
Click to expand...

OP - I have tried the F12 (not F15) from Lii Song. The build quality is fantastic and the sound is good for the price. Very good, actually. There is some business drama between Lii Song and Lii Audio as others have mentioned, but from my dealings with both Lii Audio and Lii Song, both are professional and make good products.
 
Thank you Vandemann.

Sometimes I think that I should forget about the
standard box speakers and focus on the open baffles
and not the way around, but never mind, there is not
so much money at stake for a Wiim and an E3F7.
I suppose that when you say the s model,
that it is this model you are talking about, costing :
liiaudiohifi.com

Fast 15" Full-Range High Efficiency Speaker Driver — Lii Audio HIFI

liiaudiohifi.com liiaudiohifi.com

What do you use to fine tune the filters between the sub and the F15 S ?

Do you have a photo and details of your setup ?
benzxc said:
Vandemann, if you don't mind me asking, how do you have your F15s set up? In OB? Are you driving them with solid state?

I think the field coils are a definite step up from the F15s (but the field coils have this very tacky looking phase plug that turns red (you can see in in my photo) when the field coil's PSU is turned on). Otherwise, the sound is really sublime. The field coils are quite a bit more expensive but the PSU does come with it. I'm sure there are better PSUs out there but I've never felt the urge to "upgrade" the PSU.

For what it's worth, I haven't felt the urge to upgrade any component of my system since I got the field coils and coaxials.



OP - I have tried the F12 (not F15) from Lii Song. The build quality is fantastic and the sound is good for the price. Very good, actually. There is some business drama between Lii Song and Lii Audio as others have mentioned, but from my dealings with both Lii Audio and Lii Song, both are professional and make good products.
Click to expand...
Thank you Benzxc. Actually, this is also a possibility, to use 12 inch and a sub ?

You write :
but the field coils have this very tacky looking phase plug that turns red (you can see in in my photo) when the field coil's PSU is turned on)

Could you please explain more to me as a beginner ? Thank you
 
benzxc said:
Vandemann, if you don't mind me asking, how do you have your F15s set up? In OB? Are you driving them with solid state?

I think the field coils are a definite step up from the F15s (but the field coils have this very tacky looking phase plug that turns red (you can see in in my photo) when the field coil's PSU is turned on). Otherwise, the sound is really sublime. The field coils are quite a bit more expensive but the PSU does come with it. I'm sure there are better PSUs out there but I've never felt the urge to "upgrade" the PSU.

For what it's worth, I haven't felt the urge to upgrade any component of my system since I got the field coils and coaxials.



OP - I have tried the F12 (not F15) from Lii Song. The build quality is fantastic and the sound is good for the price. Very good, actually. There is some business drama between Lii Song and Lii Audio as others have mentioned, but from my dealings with both Lii Audio and Lii Song, both are professional and make good products.
Click to expand...
Yes, OB using Caintuck baffels and a Fosi BT20A Pro (I would go with a BT20A Max now for the sub out) with a Dayton Audio SUB-1200. Low cost and wonderfull. You can do the whole thing for unde 1500 USD.

My other system is a Job/Goldmund amp with Philharmonic BMR monitors. No need for a sub with these and another great bargain.
 
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