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Life without tone controls etc.

NiagaraPete

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I had a buddy ask me one day "why don't you have bass and treble controls". My response was quick "I don't need them". Move forward to today and I realized I no longer even have a balance control.

There is lot's of talk on this forum about EQ and room conditioning etc. Maybe I'm daft but I really don't get why all that stuff is needed unless you have a really bad room or gear. I really like the "less is more" approach.

I recently upgraded my system by downsizing and in my impression getting rid of a pre-amp and turntable and replacing them with a DAC has been the biggest upgrade I've ever made.
 

Daverich4

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I had a buddy ask me one day "why don't you have bass and treble controls". My response was quick "I don't need them". Move forward to today and I realized I no longer even have a balance control.

There is lot's of talk on this forum about EQ and room conditioning etc. Maybe I'm daft but I really don't get why all that stuff is needed unless you have a really bad room or gear. I really like the "less is more" approach.

I recently upgraded my system by downsizing and in my impression getting rid of a pre-amp and turntable and replacing them with a DAC has been the biggest upgrade I've ever made.

I have a dedicated room with GIK room treatments but working with Home Audio Fidelity to create convolution filters for my specific setup made a noticeable improvement to the sound.
 

Kal Rubinson

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I had a buddy ask me one day "why don't you have bass and treble controls". My response was quick "I don't need them". Move forward to today and I realized I no longer even have a balance control.
I no longer have tone controls, either, but my software provides balance control, volume control and DSP.
There is lot's of talk on this forum about EQ and room conditioning etc. Maybe I'm daft but I really don't get why all that stuff is needed unless you have a really bad room or gear.
Because most domestic rooms are bad.
 
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001

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Occasionally my wife points out, quite rightly, that I am being very unbalanced and a complete knob. Hence I conclude that I most certainly need both balance control and some knobs to adjust my room presence ;)
 
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NiagaraPete

NiagaraPete

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Occasionally my wife points out, quite rightly, that I am being very unbalanced and a complete knob. Hence I conclude that I most certainly need both balance control and some knobs to adjust my room presence ;)
Best answer so far. My Mrs has a similar tone, and she controls.
 

Doodski

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I've been on both sides of the EQ/PEQ fence. For some years I believed that flat was how the music was intended to be listened to and anything that req'd tone adjustment was inferior. Then I became a treble booster and peeps said I have hearing issues and I did; I had wax buildup. Then I was into the active crossover stuff at home and now I am really into EQ/PEQ with headphones. I can't imagine not having tone controls/EQ/PEQ now. I reallly need tone controls. :D
 
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NiagaraPete

NiagaraPete

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I’m at age 64 where the highs could be in question. That said I have not noticed a roll off.

I have to admit my listening room is dead and has been for 20 years . My Mrs has us stuff packed with books and curtains and such. When I listen and do my music thing it’s loud and within 8’ from my speakers. I’m likely not hearing the room anyway.
 

LTig

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The omission of tone controls in audio equipment was an audiophool hoax that they would worsen SQ - as usual without giving any evidence. It started in high end audio and over many years trickled down into the lowest end, mostly for cost reasons.

What any audio chain needs is room EQ. Additional tone controls can be very helpful when playing at low SPL (loudness) or when the recording is bad. I wouldn't like to miss them.
 
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NiagaraPete

NiagaraPete

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I’d have to call bullshit on that without anymore to say. But you guested it I will.

Going from streamer to DAC to preamp to amp to streamer/DAC to amp with nothing in between has been an audio awakening for me.
 

MattHooper

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I had a digital eq in my system for decades. I pretty much never used it. Never felt the need. Sold it a while back.

Basically I get my system generally how I like it to sound, and then whatever the source sounds like...that's what it sounds like.

I'm not actually looking for everything to sound the same - by that I mean, if one track doesn't have deep or punchy bass, or more extended highs, I have no desire to tweak things so it has better bass and highs, like the last track I listened to. For me, and I know I'm not alone in this, the actual character of recordings is part of the fun. So for instance I have some collections of old production music and within an album tracks may span from the late 60's to the early 80's. That means one track may have some old crazy production choices, the drums way off to the left side, in the background, as if recorded in a reverberant closet, with thinly recorded trumpets on the right side, and goofy stuff in the middle. When I hear odd production I don't want to "fix it" with EQ, I enjoy it for what it is.

So, basically, I find I pretty much enjoy all recordings through my system, even though they all sound different. So long as I enjoy the music.

I get that some people do like the flexibility of tone controls and EQ.

I myself enjoy tweaking my system. But I tend to do it with things like room acoustic changes - whole system changes, not something I want to change per track or album. (For the most part).
 

Pdxwayne

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I’d have to call bullshit on that without anymore to say. But you guested it I will.

Going from streamer to DAC to preamp to amp to streamer/DAC to amp with nothing in between has been an audio awakening for me.
May I know which preamp you used before?

I have the opposite experience as you.

I used to do streamer to DAC to amp, with DAC doing the volume control. It was really good.

But, just recently I added a low cost Sabaj a10h as preamp and I prefer this route. I enjoy this chain more than before. Explanation from Guatard was that Gustard x16 vol control is loosy. Using a good preamp for volume control is lossless.
 

levimax

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Going from streamer to DAC to preamp to amp to streamer/DAC to amp with nothing in between has been an audio awakening for me.

I recently built a pre-amp with tone and balance controls but also with a complete "by pass" so I can switch it completely out of the chain and go directly DAC to amp because I was concerned about the potential added distortion and noise. Turns out I always leave it in the chain as I can not hear any reduced sound quality and I like having the tone controls.

I agree with @LTig that removing tone controls is one of the biggest audiophile hoaxes of all time. The only reason to remove them is to save money but the manufactures cynically claim the reason was better sound.

While DSP can accomplish the same thing a classic Baxandall circuit lets you easily and intuitively make real time adjustments for dodgy recordings or especially for "loudness" adjustments at very low level or high level playback.
 

JSmith

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I recently built a pre-amp with tone and balance controls
When are you going to build another, send it in for testing and start production? I would buy one... assuming it measured well and was decently priced. :)



JSmith
 

levimax

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When are you going to build another, send it in for testing and start production? I would buy one... assuming it measured well and was decently priced. :) JSmith

I built it based on this project using the PCB https://sound-au.com/project97.htm . The hard and expensive part of pre-amps is the case and "switching" between multiple inputs, phono pre-amps and the like. In this case I just wanted to try tone controls so only use one input and one output and the "by-pass" is some relays that when not energized connect the input and output directly together and when energized put the pre-amp in the path. Since it was an experiment I used a cheap case and the whole project was very cheap to build.

I don't think I am brave enough to send it in to Amir.... it looks cheap and DIY and I am sure my internal wiring and layout would be critiqued to no end. On the other hand it works exactly as planned and is very quiet. Some day I will put it in a better case.
 

kchap

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I connect from DAC to amp. Occasionally, when I'm listening to a poor recording, I wish I could apply a bit of of treble cut. Equalizing for room characteristics is a fair enough but you need more than bass and treble controls.

I think it's inevitable that consumers will expect DACs in the over $300 range to be equipped with advanced DSP capability. My wish list for these DSP DACs:
  • The standard treble, bass, balance & volume controls.
  • Room equalization.
  • User definable harman curves for you headphone collection.
  • For the menuclasts[1] like me, real knobs and buttons.
  • Whatever else I think of later.
Some streamers do a lot of this already. I just think advance DSP will be incorporated in the DAC chip or at least DSP chips that readily interface with the DAC chip.

[1] Terrible pun, I deserved to be benched.
 

dc655321

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That said I have not noticed a roll off.

That is the nature of age-related hearing loss. It's insidious. When was the last time you had your hearing checked professionally?

I’m likely not hearing the room anyway.

No. That's not likely at all.

Coincidentally, you know what can help compensate for room effects...? ;)
 
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