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LFE Noise problem

There are MANY component categories where limiting yourself to only those supporting XLR will GREATLY blow out a limited budget and get you inferior value gear.

Of course proper signal conversion can be reasonably priced - $15-30 /ch? - especially secondhand legacy stuff.

Many ways to skin that cat.
 
This thread provides a broad overview of various differential and single-ended configurations. What it does not do is fully address the ground loop problem and how common-mode rejection from ground or shield induced noise is impacted by the various configurations except by inference. In general an XLR connector does not guarantee true differential operation and immunity from ground loops, even with pro gear. I, and many, have fought ground loops and other common-mode noise problems in professional audio systems running only XLR connections everywhere.

 
This thread provides a broad overview of various differential and single-ended configurations. What it does not do is fully address the ground loop problem and how common-mode rejection from ground or shield induced noise is impacted by the various configurations except by inference. In general an XLR connector does not guarantee true differential operation and immunity from ground loops, even with pro gear. I, and many, have fought ground loops and other common-mode noise problems in professional audio systems running only XLR connections everywhere.

While I would agree there's no guarantee, and that it's possible to have an XLR connector with no differential amplifier—this is clearly deceptive. There should also be some indication of wiring on the device to avoid the pin 1 problem and some spec on CMRR.
 
There are MANY component categories where limiting yourself to only those supporting XLR will GREATLY blow out a limited budget and get you inferior value gear.
Haven't encountered that issue myself. It's actually been much easier to pick devices since the field is narrower when requiring XLR. The only time I've blown a budget is when I've insisted on getting the "best" of something.
 
Most equipment should not emit a deafening buzz when plugged to the same power strip, even for 2-pin devices like your Marantz.

I meant to mention this earlier but forgot, that apart from your middle room socket, there is likely another fault on one of your equipment. Could be the Rel, could be the Marantz (probably not since it is already 2-pin = less things to fail), could be whatever source is feeding the Marantz. One way to tell is disconnect the source feeding the Marantz and leave only the Rel and Marantz connected on the same power strip known to cause buzzing, and see if the buzzing disappears.
 
I was not aware that XLR is immune to ground loops. I wonder why ground lift switches are a thing?
It is if correctly implemented by all devices. Unfortunately there are still devices with 'Pin 1 problems' despite AES48 having been around for years, and well documented ways to test equipment for this problem before releasing it to market. Ground lift switches are there because of this sad reality.
 
I would switch to gear with XLR connections and never think about ground loops again.
Used to believe the same - unfortunately this statement seems to be wrong, details were discussed in this thread:


Despite all this, I never experienced audible hum with any of my components and balanced interconnects - even with 15m analog wiring running in parallel to mains wiring...
 
Hey All,

I just purchased a Rel t9x subwoofer to replace my 20 year old Sony Sub. I hooked it up to the lfe channel on my Marantz 7013 amp (same outlet that the Sony has been plugged into)
and a nasty buzz transfers through all my HT speakers.
Now this happens regardless weather the Rel sub is on or not but as long as the rca lead is connected to the Marantz amp and the sub is plugged in to a power socket, the buzz/humm is there.
As soon as i remove the rca cable, the noise is gone.

I have tried different rca cables, but no avail...

Now more recently I have managed to reduce the Humm alot by plugging the sub into a power socket in the middle of the dining room.
I can plug the Marantz amp into any of the other 3 sockets, leaving the sub plugged into that middle socket in the dining room, including the middle one and the humm is
basically gone.
But if I plug the Sub power into any of the sockets other than the middle one, regardless of where the Marantz is plugged in the humm or buzzz comes back.

So confused.....

Any theories?
Did you get one of the isolation transformers that were mentioned in this thread? If so, did it work? If not, I suggest you try that route. I'm pretty sure an isolation transformer will get rid of your ground loop.
 
While I would agree there's no guarantee, and that it's possible to have an XLR connector with no differential amplifier—this is clearly deceptive. There should also be some indication of wiring on the device to avoid the pin 1 problem and some spec on CMRR.
I have seen many quasi-differential inputs and drivers in the consumer and professional product categories (mainly mixers and some active monitors). Some weren't really even "quasi" e.g. just grounded or floated the out of phase path, and most did not state the topology, though you are right that CMRR specs (if provided) are a clue. Not sure I would say it's deceptive, though for the grounded/floating connections I'd agree, but could be misleading if you do not know about it and run into problems. It is not just a differential amplifier issue, or coupling transformer issue, but also an issue with signal return/shield connection and common-mode isolation that was sometimes the problem. I think debating cause and effect is outside the scope of this thread.
 
Low cost isolation transformers tend to not have good low frequency specs and the sub is used on a lfe channel, but it is a good first option.
True; I usually recommend a cheap (~$50 USD) one from Amazon for subs that has decent LF response, but the OP is in Au so I didn't link it. The Extech Hum-X wall isolator is also an option here in the USA but I am not sure would work in Au.
 
Read this (in case you do not stick with simple but wrong advices):


No one in this forum will give you better answers and better explanation.
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be here. That paper is about proper differential signaling and shielding. Using an XLR connection neither guarantees nor is required for such.

Also, while Mr. Putzeys' technical chops are unimpeachable, he does seem prone to a bit of hyperbole in his prose. He says, in that paper:

Unbalanced connections affect the sound quite strongly for reasons that by now should be quite obvious

Unbalanced connections certainly can affect the sound quite strongly, when there is a ground loop or a noisy environment. The latter is not typically an issue in home environments with short cable runs. The former can rear its ugly head, but again, simply buying gear that uses XLR connections is quite far from a guarantee of being immune to such a problem.

Besides, for my balanced connections I prefer Euroblock/Phoenix connectors, personally. But, at home at least, I simply deal with the reality that single-ended is the norm in consumer gear and use it without any problems in my setup.
 
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