Let's talk CD Players!

[JoachimStrobel]

Sadly the standard response is because of the popularity of streaming. Anybody who is not a hifi / AV enthusiast don't buy disc player anymore. They are more than happy with Netflix and Amazon Prime videos. Spotify have now rendered CDs irrelevant on the music playback front. There is simply not enough sales to justify the R&D for these kinds of players.

A Sony 4k bluray player can be bought for £200 now on Amazon and they're not selling. Imagine trying to sell a £1000 universal player that has functions and SQ that most people will not appreciate?

...I understand that. But an Oppo 205 without disk drive would still be a good product for 800 usd. There is a need for a high quality Hdmi DAC with USB in and out and all kind of conversions. MiniDSP, are you listening?

 

[pirxel]

I recently bought a Pioneer DV-525 in pristine condition for the price of a coffee, which I connect via optical to the smsl m500, so it's a pure transport.
I started buying CDs again mainly in an attempt actually own the music and support the artists I like and I have been enjoying being able to actually touch it and not having to go to the internet to, for example, check the lyrics to a song. As the process is more involved you dedicate yourself more to the listening experience, yata yata, but this part you heard already.
The Pioneer was for sure an upgrade over the external DVD-R drive from LG I mostly because it's completely silent, the external drive was noisy AF and from the moment I put the disc in to the moment I could actually listen, at least in my machine, there were several steps and took some time really. With the Pioneer I just need to change the input in my dac and put the disc in. It also matches my onkyo tape deck in that late 80s early 90s aesthetics, one in each side of my desk, but that is a marginal point.

Ah, and ofc I did compare the RCA outs directly to my amp as to using the m500 as a dac, but the result is just as expected.

 

[thefsb]

Sadly the standard response is because of the popularity of streaming. Anybody who is not a hifi / AV enthusiast don't buy disc player anymore.

I know people who prefer to buy physical media and who have no enthusiasm for either HiFi or AV. They have their reasons that have nothing to do with enthusiasm for CD players or turntables.

 

[Robin L]

I know people who prefer to buy physical media and who have no enthusiasm for either HiFi or AV. They have their reasons that have nothing to do with enthusiasm for CD players or turntables.

Had the weird experience yesterday of hearing [for the first time] the Beatles 2019 Abbey Road remix via Youtube via a Roku into a Toshiba 26" TV into an Yahama AV receiver feeding Sennheiser HD 579 cans. yes I could hear differences from the original mix. Maybe if I heard the CD through some costly gear it would sound better. But probably not, the sound was fine.

Two thoughts. First, would it really have sounded better if I went out and spent the money on the CD? If I DBTed the music, stream vs CD, would I hear a difference? Second, it's not that different, so what's the big deal? I'm sure a part is marking a 50th anniversary and maybe a bigger part is getting copyright control on the outtakes. But really, making such a fuss over so very little. It's the nature of the times, the illusion of ownership when the reality is that it's all out there for free. I suspect that illusion of ownership, of control, is what motivates people, even though, in all seriousness, we don't legally "own" what we buy.

 

[thefsb]

I recently bought a Pioneer DV-525 in pristine condition for the price of a coffee, which I connect via optical to the smsl m500, so it's a pure transport.
I started buying CDs again mainly in an attempt actually own the music and support the artists I like and I have been enjoying being able to actually touch it and not having to go to the internet to, for example, check the lyrics to a song. As the process is more involved you dedicate yourself more to the listening experience, yata yata, but this part you heard already.
The Pioneer was for sure an upgrade over the external DVD-R drive from LG I mostly because it's completely silent, the external drive was noisy AF and from the moment I put the disc in to the moment I could actually listen, at least in my machine, there were several steps and took some time really. With the Pioneer I just need to change the input in my dac and put the disc in. It also matches my onkyo tape deck in that late 80s early 90s aesthetics, one in each side of my desk, but that is a marginal point.

Ah, and ofc I did compare the RCA outs directly to my amp as to using the m500 as a dac, but the result is just as expected.
View attachment 65506View attachment 65507

Ah, Dresden Dolls. I was friends with Amanda when she was still living in that crazy house on Northampton St. I performed at one of the partys there. It was a snowy night.

Supporting artists and engaging physically with the medium are important to a lot of people.

I have a large collection of CDs but I have no enthusiasm for them, unlike my LPs. I understand the technical superiority of CDs (and I admire the format as a very well engineered standard) but somehow I always resented them. Jewel cases. Microscopic print on little bits of paper that you either bend or tear or hurt your fingers on trying to remove. Box sets of slim jewel cases with tiny booklets. Digipak. It's all ... just ... yuck.

But I think there's a deeper reason. Vinyl is fragile and you can't back it up like you can back up binary data file. Vinyl and its packaging degrade. Minimizing degradation and preserving your vinyl requires some investment—of love. CDs otoh are just distribution of binary data that can be copied endlessly. The very fact of this seems to diminish its value.

 

[thefsb]

Had the weird experience yesterday of hearing [for the first time] the Beatles 2019 Abbey Road remix via Youtube via a Roku into a Toshiba 26" TV into an Yahama AV receiver feeding Sennheiser HD 579 cans. yes I could hear differences from the original mix. Maybe if I heard the CD through some costly gear it would sound better. But probably not, the sound was fine.

Two thoughts. First, would it really have sounded better if I went out and spent the money on the CD? If I DBTed the music, stream vs CD, would I hear a difference? Second, it's not that different, so what's the big deal? I'm sure a part is marking a 50th anniversary and maybe a bigger part is getting copyright control on the outtakes. But really, making such a fuss over so very little. It's the nature of the times, the illusion of ownership when the reality is that it's all out there for free. I suspect that illusion of ownership, of control, is what motivates people, even though, in all seriousness, we don't legally "own" what we buy.

You may be onto something there. But what to you is an illusion is a meaningful difference to them and that makes it real to them, under one reasonable definition of real.

 

[Robin L]

You may be onto something there. But what to you is an illusion is a meaningful difference to them and that makes it real to them, under one reasonable definition of real.

Thing I remember is the widespread presence of promo records and CDs, festooned with warnings of retaliation if the person with the promo was to attempt to transfer "ownership" to someone else. Unenforceable, of course, but boilerplate back then. Now that recorded music is all over the internet, albums in full length on sites like YouTube, anyone can listen to them if they so choose to and not pay the entry fee they once would. I'd say the notion of "ownership" was always an illusion.

 

[thefsb]

And then there are those with collections that include a lot of music that's not in the streaming services. Like my collection, or Ron Lessard's (pic below). Google him.

Ripping CDs is a total PITA. I hate doing it.

So what are you going to do? Playing it on a player made for that medium is practical and not primarily serving to provide an illusion of control.

Ron Lessard (sometimes known as Emil Beaulieau: America’s Greatest Living Noise Artist) was one of the first people to support me when I started solo performances after arriving in the USA.

 

[camdoogy]

Anyone have experience with the Arcam CDS-50? I’m looking for a sacd player as I have a few hybrids and I have yet to hear the sacd layer. Currently rebuilding my system after selling my Stellar Gain Dac. I’m assuming that I must use the analog outputs of any sacd player to keep it DSD. Any sacd player recommendations are appreciated.

 

[GD Fan]

Anyone have experience with the Arcam CDS-50? I’m looking for a sacd player as I have a few hybrids and I have yet to hear the sacd layer. Currently rebuilding my system after selling my Stellar Gain Dac. I’m assuming that I must use the analog outputs of any sacd player to keep it DSD. Any sacd player recommendations are appreciated.

I bought a CDS50 on Audiogon last year. It's really nice listening to SACDs and I have no complaints about the unit. That said, I do sort of wish I'd ponied up a few bucks more for an Oppo to be able to consolidate the video function (DVD, Blu-ray) in one unit.

 

[camdoogy]

I bought a CDS50 on Audiogon last year. It's really nice listening to SACDs and I have no complaints about the unit. That said, I do sort of wish I'd ponied up a few bucks more for an Oppo to be able to consolidate the video function (DVD, Blu-ray) in one unit.

Thanks for the response. I was thinking that I might do an Oppo a disservice by only using it as a DAC and disc player. I may just get whatever I can find that is the cheapest.

 

[WHQL]

I currently own 6 Disc Players although only 2 are present in my system at the moment. These are a Sony SCD-XA5400ES and an Oppo BDP-83SE. The other players I own are a Phillips DVD 963SA, Pioneer DV-525, Pioneer BDP-80FD and a Sony 5 Disc CD Changer, which are in storage. I have also ripped most of my collection of CD's, DVD-A's DVD Music, BD Music, and SACD's to a Windows10 i7 PC for which I use JRMC23 WASAPI for playback. Subjectively, my preference as well as many others who have heard comparisons among the XA5400ES, Oppo, Phillips and PC on my system, are is as follows:

1. Sony SCD-XA5400ES (MCH HDMI Out, 2CH Analog Out) Separated by a line because it is that much better than the rest. My opinion in my system.
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2. Oppo BDP-83SE (HDMI Out)
3. Oppo BDP-83SE (7.1 Analog Out)
4. Phillips DVD 963SA (7.1 Analog Out) Best DVD movie player. Incredible picture. Great SACD MCH and 2CH playback. Surprising performance.
5. Windows10 Pro i7 PC w/Pioneer BDR-S09JX Transport (HDMI Out) This was also a surprise. I had higher hopes for my digitilized library. Sounded phenomenal for a year until I dug out some MCH SACD's and played them through the 5400ES and then the other players back to back. A good MCH DAC would probably improve sound quality.

- Pioneer DV-525 (Analog Out) Used primarily as a DVD movie player. I don't recall CD playback quality.
- Pioneer BDP-80FD (HDMI Out) Bought solely to digitize my SACD Collection. Never tried it as a player.
- Sony 5 CD Changer (Analog Out) Convenient when it first came out. Had a randomization function. Not the best playback quality. It also played LaserDiscs, but I never tried them.

These components are fed into a Marantz AV8801 pre-pro, NAD M25 MCH Amplifier, B&W 604 Series Speakers/ASW2000 Subwoofer. Room Correction and Bass Management are enabled.

 

[Jarrett]

I owned this (my photos) for about 6 years.

I stopped collecting CDs (~300 Classical) and moved on to USB DACs (my first was an HRT microstreamer and now I have the Topping E30 - both sound better).

I liked the ability on the Arcam to switch off the display via remote, and it was a very quiet unit.

 

[pirxel]

Ah, Dresden Dolls. I was friends with Amanda when she was still living in that crazy house on Northampton St. I performed at one of the partys there. It was a snowy night.

[...]

But I think there's a deeper reason. Vinyl is fragile and you can't back it up like you can back up binary data file. Vinyl and its packaging degrade. Minimizing degradation and preserving your vinyl requires some investment—of love. CDs otoh are just distribution of binary data that can be copied endlessly. The very fact of this seems to diminish its value.

Wow that's awesome! I was obsessed with Dresden Dolls when I was in University, but to this day one of my favorite bands. It must have been a great scene - I'm jealous

And yeah, I share some of the resentment towards the jewel cases, but they were there when I grew up, so it's something I managed to get used to. I always envied the vinyl experience (we had a vinyl player at my place when I was a kid, but that was it). Now I live in a small apartment, so even my tape deck and full sized CD player already seem like I'm taking more space than I should. I imagine I may get back to it one day, but that will only happen when I get a bigger place and that, well, no idea when that could even happen...
The fact that Vynils are this ephemeral thing, yeah I completely get it. I get a bit of it with the cassettes too, you know this reminds me a great essay I read back at the University, Walter Benjamin and The Artwork in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction, hope someone can enjoy the read

 

[pirxel]

I owned this (my photos) for about 6 years.

View attachment 65708
View attachment 65709

I stopped collecting CDs (~300 Classical) and moved on to USB DACs (my first was an HRT microstreamer and now I have the Topping E30 - both sound better).

I liked the ability on the Arcam to switch off the display via remote, and it was a very quiet unit.

that is a handsome unit. When you say it sounds better, you connected via RCA or used the optical/coaxial to the dac?

 

[thefsb]

Anyone have experience with the Arcam CDS-50? I’m looking for a sacd player as I have a few hybrids and I have yet to hear the sacd layer. Currently rebuilding my system after selling my Stellar Gain Dac. I’m assuming that I must use the analog outputs of any sacd player to keep it DSD. Any sacd player recommendations are appreciated.

Can you buy the digital file for one of them and listen? I did the experiments and I can't hear a difference between CD and anything with higher bit rate.

 

[thefsb]

I owned this (my photos) for about 6 years.

View attachment 65708
View attachment 65709

I stopped collecting CDs (~300 Classical) and moved on to USB DACs (my first was an HRT microstreamer and now I have the Topping E30 - both sound better).

I liked the ability on the Arcam to switch off the display via remote, and it was a very quiet unit.

This is the model of Arcam I used for many years. I think it's a rebranded Phillips player. My friend had the Phillips and it looked the same except for superficial touches, as did the remote.

 

[Jarrett]

that is a handsome unit. When you say it sounds better, you connected via RCA or used the optical/coaxial to the dac?

Oh I meant both USB DACs sounded better The unit still had some resale value, so I made the switch.

 

[Nemo]

I have a Harman-Kardon HD990 that I bought new back in the day, and is still operational at my parents' house in South Spain. They do not use it much, and when I am visiting (I live in the East Coast of the US now) I mainly use it as a DAC using a Topping D10 as a USB/S/PDIF bridge.

I believe the DAC and Analog sections are mostly transparent, and the test report that I found (https://i.nextmedia.com.au/avhub/pdf_harman_kardon_hd990_cd_player_review(1).pdf?129313148056993132) seems to support that. As far as I can tell, the distortion figures are competitive even today, and the only tell-tale of "older" technology is a 80dB/96dB Unweighted/A-weighted Noise levels.

Here are a couple of pictures from the web:

 

[Herbert]

Anyone here who is deeply familiar with Compact Disc 3-beam systems? Someone like Ken Clements?
https://books.google.de/books?id=QH...v=onepage&q=Ken Clements compact disc&f=false

For a long time I have the idea of swapping the laser diodes to make the early players run for ages.
There are some guys on the net who claim they did that, like this guy on a BU-1 from Sony:
https://vintage-audio-laser.com/A-l-atelier-page-54

The biggest problem: The diffraction grating. It has to be adjusted which was done at the factory
There is a commercial repairer somwhere in China who claims to do diode swaps,
but I have no link in the moment. This also seems strange, as modern diodes have smaller
casings and pinouts and "original" replacements for Players from the eighties are faulty
because of improper esd handling of diodes.

I look for someone to team up with to make swaps possible. The BU-1 could be a candidate,
as nothing is glued and everything adjustable… It is also completely based on magnets, no gear to brake
or bearings to wear as it has a brushless disc motor with 3mm shaft...