Let's share diagrams (and photos) of our total physical audio system and the whole signal path, with a few words and/or links

[olds1959special]

My living room setup:

 

[redjr]

Sharing the journeyView attachment 496508View attachment 496509

I betcha just some big, BIG sound in that room. Nicely done. Neat and tidy except for a few cables

 

[olds1959special]

My Hafler circuit system:

There’s a 10ms delay on the rear channel and it’s turned down by 6dB on the inputs. The mono button is on for the center setup in the Apogee software.

Right now volume is control separately for center and the rest, but maybe I can fix that with the SoundSource volume key feature.

 

[dualazmak]

Thank you again for your participations!

Now I am much interested in "drift correction" between your DAC1 and DAC2 especially how you can also achieve the "trigger synchronization" between the two when you start playing a music track.
Do you have common word clock synchronization mechanism between the two?
Or are you applying Mac OS's quasi-sync-aggregation functionality among multiple DC units?

Just for my curiosity, on Windows OS with ASIO and/or WDM/WASAPI drivers, I rather intensively tested/evaluated whether strict "trigger synchronization" would be achieved or not among multiple independent DAC units each has its own ASIO (or WDM/WASAPI) drivers.

I found the trigger timings would be dependent on Windows audio handling priority, and hence perfect/strict "trigger synchronization" cannot be achieved by audio handling/routing software tools like ASIO4ALL and VB-AUDIO MATRIX (ref. #783-"Summary Fig.18", #804-"Summary Fig.20" and #1,021 on my project thread).

Of course, we can perfectly sync the multichannel DAC processing including the triggers when we use "multichannel DAC unit" like 8-Ch OKTO DAC8PRO which I use throughout my project having its own multichannel ASIO driver.

 

[olds1959special]

Thank you again for your participations!

Now I am much interested in "drift correction" between your DAC1 and DAC2 especially how you can also achieve the "trigger synchronization" between the two when you start playing a music track.
Do you have common word clock synchronization mechanism between the two?
Or are you applying Mac OS's quasi-sync-aggregation functionality among multiple DC units?

Just for my curiosity, on Windows OS with ASIO and/or WDM/WASAPI drivers, I rather intensively tested/evaluated whether strict "trigger synchronization" would be achieved or not among multiple independent DAC units each has its own ASIO (or WDM/WASAPI) drivers.

I found the trigger timings would be dependent on Windows audio handling priority, and hence perfect/strict "trigger synchronization" cannot be achieved by audio handling/routing software tools like ASIO4ALL and VB-AUDIO MATRIX (ref. #783, #804 and #1,021 on my project thread).

Of course, we can perfectly sync the multichannel DAC processing including the triggers in case if we use "multichannel DAC unit" like 8-Ch OKTO DAC8PRO which I use throughout my project having its own multichannel ASIO driver.

I’m not sure about the drift correction. At first I thought it sounded better without using it at all but then one day I played music and the speakers were very out of sync. So I the end I just decided to use my Apogee Duet center setup as my main interface and set the MiniDSP to drift correction. I assume the center speaker naturally has less delay anyway.

I can also use this setup a different way where the center speaker is connected to the miniDSP and doesn’t need two DACs, but I wanted more volume and independent volume control to play around with.

 

[olds1959special]

Thank you again for your participations!

Now I am much interested in "drift correction" between your DAC1 and DAC2 especially how you can also achieve the "trigger synchronization" between the two when you start playing a music track.
Do you have common word clock synchronization mechanism between the two?
Or are you applying Mac OS's quasi-sync-aggregation functionality among multiple DC units?

Just for my curiosity, on Windows OS with ASIO and/or WDM/WASAPI drivers, I rather intensively tested/evaluated whether strict "trigger synchronization" would be achieved or not among multiple independent DAC units each has its own ASIO (or WDM/WASAPI) drivers.

I found the trigger timings would be dependent on Windows audio handling priority, and hence perfect/strict "trigger synchronization" cannot be achieved by audio handling/routing software tools like ASIO4ALL and VB-AUDIO MATRIX (ref. #783-"Summary Fig.18", #804-"Summary Fig.20" and #1,021 on my project thread).

Of course, we can perfectly sync the multichannel DAC processing including the triggers when we use "multichannel DAC unit" like 8-Ch OKTO DAC8PRO which I use throughout my project having its own multichannel ASIO driver.

to avoid bigger problems with drift correction, I used my miniDSP as the main device and use the drift correction on the Duet 3 which only goes to the center speaker/subwoofer. I can't detect a delay.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Network cable --> Dutch & Dutch 8Cs

Roon core on an old macbook in another room, music files in Dropbox

 

[Oddball]

to avoid bigger problems with drift correction, I used my miniDSP as the main device and use the drift correction on the Duet 3 which only goes to the center speaker/subwoofer. I can't detect a delay.

Drift correction - well there is always something one can learn. How would that help with the measurements, if we for once, ignore the subjective part of the story?

 

[dualazmak]

Drift correction - well there is always something one can learn. How would that help with the measurements, if we for once, ignore the subjective part of the story?

Well, I think it would be always a kind of "endless theme" for our discussions, measurements, and subjective listening evaluations.

And I believe we should clearly separate the two points/issues in this regard of multiple-channel DAC processing;
1. trigger (kick-off/start-up) synchronization (or not) among the DAC channels, even if the strict synchronization (drift correction) could be achieved afterwards,
2. clock synchronization = drift correction among the multiple DAC channels after starting/triggering playback of a music track.

I learned a lot about these features/issues through my rather intensive objective measurements (of course, plus subjective listening evaluations) which I shared in #783, #804 and #1,021 on my project thread.

We can completely "solve" both of 1. and 2. by using sync multichannel DAC unit like OKTO DAC8PRO (I use it), TOPPING DM7, all-new MOTU 16A, etc. all of which have dedicated multichannel USB ASIO driver.

We can also "solve" the issues if we can achieve all synchronized AES/EBU digital inputs into the multichannel DAC (or such multiple DAC units) if they have AES/EBU digital inputs (like OKTO DAC8PRO), since AES/EBU digital signal contains clock sync pulses in it. This has been widely achieved in pro audio market in multichannel recording and sound editing.

Furthermore, even in the case of USB ASIO configuration, we can fully synchronize certain "same brand" multiple DAC units (like RME Fireface UFX III) if they have some "sync trigger and drift correction" mechanism with each other through their dedicated USB ASIO driver (ref. #842 on my project thread). In the case, each of the multiple DAC units needs to be connected to USB ports of PC (or Mac) so that the ASIO driver can recognize all the sync-aggregated DAC channels.

 

[Oddball]

I definitively appreciate your input but would not be honest if not to say it is over my head.

There are obviously many nuances the 2.0 world that I am ignorant about. That is just my use case as going for multichannel stuff.

Just wondering why people don’t post the graphs as well. Just to be honest these are some that I have. Decay is a bit high for ART but then there is a whole discussion about that point. Called wet or dry. I do like how it sounds. A bit on the wet side.

 

[dualazmak]

Yes, essentially agree with you, your point is the major purposes/objectives of this thread, so my turn.

REW's wavelet spectrum enables visual semi-objective observation of delay and room acoustic-modes/environments.

Even though the REW parameters are different from yours, let me share these diagrams/graphs (for the details please refer to #21, #22, #931 and #1,009 on my project thread).

I cannot say which, yours or mine, would fit better for our personal listening preferences, though.

Our audio acoustic representation with diagrams/graphs is not always similar to sharing digital photos of our camera shots.
For actual preference comparisons, therefore, we do need visiting our listening rooms with each other, always!

And,,,
Let me again share my "Audio Reference/Sampler Music Playlist" consists of 60 tracks of various music genres as possible reference for all the people onboard on this exciting thread.

 

[olds1959special]

Well, I think it would be always a kind of "endless theme" for our discussions, measurements, and subjective listening evaluations.

And I believe we should clearly separate the two points/issues in this regard of multiple-channel DAC processing;
1. trigger (kick-off/start-up) synchronization (or not) among the DAC channels, even if the strict synchronization (drift correction) could be achieved afterwards,
2. clock synchronization = drift correction among the multiple DAC channels after starting/triggering playback of a music track.

I learned a lot about these features/issues through my rather intensive objective measurements (of course, plus subjective listening evaluations) which I shared in #783, #804 and #1,021 on my project thread.

We can completely "solve" both of 1. and 2. by using sync multichannel DAC unit like OKTO DAC8PRO (I use it), TOPPING DM7, all-new MOTU 16A, etc. all of which have dedicated multichannel USB ASIO driver.

We can also "solve" the issues if we can achieve all synchronized AES/EBU digital inputs into the multichannel DAC (or such multiple DAC units) if they have AES/EBU digital inputs (like OKTO DAC8PRO), since AES/EBU digital signal contains clock sync pulses in it. This has been widely achieved in pro audio market in multichannel recording and sound editing.

Furthermore, even in the case of USB ASIO configuration, we can fully synchronize certain "same brand" multiple DAC units (like RME Fireface UFX III) if they have some "sync trigger and drift correction" mechanism with each other through their dedicated USB ASIO driver (ref. #842 on my project thread). In the case, each of the multiple DAC units needs to be connected to USB ports of PC (or Mac) so that the ASIO driver can recognize all the sync-aggregated DAC channels.

I stopped using multiple DAC's and simply plugged the center setup into the MiniDSP outputs. The volume is slightly lower without any extra pre-amp but it's in sync now.

 

[dualazmak]

I stopped using multiple DAC's and simply plugged the center setup into the MiniDSP outputs. The volume is slightly lower without any extra pre-amp but it's in sync now.

You would please do not be too much "strict" on your audio system.

You may use multiple DAC units (with preamplifier gain controls) if the trigger timing difference(s)/lag(s) and the possible synchronization drift(s) are within acceptable time scale, say within 10 msec, and if you have no audible "issues" on it. You would please trust your own "subjective listening preference" with your ears and brain at your listening position. Our ears and brain are not identical to measurement microphone and sound analysis software.

Objective measurements of trigger mismatch and/or drift of synchronization (or not), however, would be worthwhile to objectively know the "actual room sound status" of your system with which you usually enjoy music listening excitements. Based on such objective data, sometimes further tuning would be possible for better subjective assessment/feeling of the system-sound in your acoustic listening environments.

 

[Stoutblock]

I betcha just some big, BIG sound in that room. Nicely done. Neat and tidy except for a few cables

I seldom listen louder than 85-90db but the image and soundstage of the system is huge.

 

[xanalog]

Since major quality upgrades while also achieving big saving$ and much "simpler" hardware; I finally was able to assemble together a drawing of almost all of the hardware for our entertainment systems in the house.

Power supplies, wallwarts, remotes, wireless and portable device would only make matters much more complicated, so I have not included them in my multi-layered drawing:

Although everything is properly connected, and perfectly functional, I can't figure out how the show the wiring because they would look worse than a giant maze or like a large bowl of spaghetti!