Let's see what you have under (and around) the hood - bass management and DSP challenge

[GA16SE]

In @ban25 `s post #8 in this thread, there’s an attached picture showing two KEF R3 speakers as SL/SR placed directly on the floor, which is in contradiction with the recommendation in the user manual at p. #11: “Always place the bookshelf loudspeakers on shelves or stands. Do not place them directly on the floor.”

By placing those two speakers directly on the floor, aren’t the measurements altered?

 

[kawauso]

We have some great stuff cumming in. Really glad that people want to pursue this topic and thanks to all for contributing. Would love to see some multi-channel active systems as well.

As I noted, I personally find it less important to post pre and after graphs. The idea is to show the best you have and how your got there. I also wanted to limit discussion to FQ response and decay. That really matters most, at least to me. But obviously people are free to post what they want and any discussion will be interesting.

FQ response is an obvious one that does not need much discussion. With recent reduction of decay on ART (which probably many experienced before through different tools), there seems to be a point of "dry" bass which less decay creates, vs. "wet" bass that most previous EQ solutions offered. Don't think there is universal answer to what works best according to one's preferences. But it is always possible to increase decay to one's preference if the system provides ways to reduce decay to "dry" bass territory. Other way around is much more difficult.

Some amazing manual-EQ work has already been posted here.
BC is convenient, but it generally doesn’t reach the level of a skilled manual tuner.
What surprised me is that ART doesn’t seem to lose to those manual results in terms of frequency response.

Even though ART calibration is done only around the MLP, the improvement outside the MLP is quite impressive.

 

[Oddball]

Some amazing manual-EQ work has already been posted here.
BC is convenient, but it generally doesn’t reach the level of a skilled manual tuner.
What surprised me is that ART doesn’t seem to lose to those manual results in terms of frequency response.

Even though ART calibration is done only around the MLP, the improvement outside the MLP is quite impressive.

I still hope that more "manual" tweakers will post as that will only make the thread better. FQ response is not easy to fix, but it is easily fixable. Other aspect of the signal are more difficult. I don't mind my "high" decay. It actually sounds pretty good as is. And thanks for your generous and inspired contributions to this thread.

 

[ban25]

In @ban25 `s post #8 in this thread, there’s an attached picture showing two KEF R3 speakers as SL/SR placed directly on the floor, which is in contradiction with the recommendation in the user manual at p. #11: “Always place the bookshelf loudspeakers on shelves or stands. Do not place them directly on the floor.”

By placing those two speakers directly on the floor, aren’t the measurements altered?

Aside from an earlier floor bounce, there's not much impact, particularly for surround. The vertical directivity is also not really an issue with the coaxial UniQ driver. Again, they're surround speakers meant to convey some audio behind the MLP in home theater, not for critical listening.

 

[DWPress]

Ok, I'll play. These screenshots are with DLBC active and messing around last spring. 3-way active XO + 2 subs.

Edit: Note the SPL these measurements were taken at! I'll try to find something more sensible to compare more normal listening levels.

However, if I turn off my 2nd sub (SVS SB1000) with it's own built in DSP I get a cleaner impulse.

 

[kawauso]

Here's my setup with two subs and manual correction (5 biquads):
View attachment 490874 View attachment 490875
The second plot is the same data but normalized.
Magnitude response (spatial average; 1/12th oct smoothing):
View attachment 490876

The infra-bass extension down to 10 Hz is truly impressive. That subwoofer looks incredible.

 

[kawauso]

Aside from an earlier floor bounce, there's not much impact, particularly for surround. The vertical directivity is also not really an issue with the coaxial UniQ driver. Again, they're surround speakers meant to convey some audio behind the MLP in home theater, not for critical listening.

Do you place your surround speakers on the floor because you prefer the sound that way, or is it mainly for aesthetics?

 

[ban25]

Do you place your surround speakers on the floor because you prefer the sound that way, or is it mainly for aesthetics?

I had them on SolidSteel SS-6 stands, but I ended up using those stands to equip a different room with a dedicated 2-channel setup. Originally, I intended to purchase another set of stands, but they were not in stock and the lead times were too long so I never got around to it, and ultimately I realized I don't need them.

 

[bmc0]

The infra-bass extension down to 10 Hz is truly impressive.

A lot of it is the room. The subs themselves aren't anything too crazy—just Dayton RSS390HF-4s (15 inch, 14mm Xmax) in sealed enclosures. The anechoic response is set to 2nd-order Butterworth at 20Hz (using a Linkwitz transform) and the room correction filters aren't doing much below 20Hz. Despite this, the in-room F3 is about 5.5Hz:

 

[kawauso]

I had them on SolidSteel SS-6 stands, but I ended up using those stands to equip a different room with a dedicated 2-channel setup. Originally, I intended to purchase another set of stands, but they were not in stock and the lead times were too long so I never got around to it, and ultimately I realized I don't need them.

So it turned out surprisingly good without the stands. It even looks great this way. The top speakers, the Ci200RR-THX, also look quite impressive.

 

[ban25]

So it turned out surprisingly good without the stands. It even looks great this way. The top speakers, the Ci200RR-THX, also look quite impressive.

Yeah those things are great. They play impressively low as well. It's extremely immersive with a game like Silent Hill F, for instance, as they are active for pretty much the whole game. This is where the stands ended up:

 

[kawauso]

A lot of it is the room. The subs themselves aren't anything too crazy—just Dayton RSS390HF-4s (15 inch, 14mm Xmax) in sealed enclosures. The anechoic response is set to 2nd-order Butterworth at 20Hz (using a Linkwitz transform) and the room correction filters aren't doing much below 20Hz. Despite this, the in-room F3 is about 5.5Hz:
View attachment 491233

Wow, that’s quite a generous room gain reaching all the way down to 5 Hz. Do you actually feel the vibrations through your body?

 

[kawauso]

Yeah those things are great. They play impressively low as well. It's extremely immersive with a game like Silent Hill F, for instance, as they are active for pretty much the whole game. This is where the stands ended up:

View attachment 491242

The artwork and plants give it such a stylish look. The speaker stands make the LS50 Meta look like it’s floating in the air a bit. The LS50 Meta is really a great speaker, isn’t it?

 

[ban25]

The artwork and plants give it such a stylish look. The speaker stands make the LS50 Meta look like it’s floating in the air a bit. The LS50 Meta is really a great speaker, isn’t it?

Quite good indeed, I have them with a dedicated vinyl setup powered by a Rotel amp.

 

[bmc0]

Do you actually feel the vibrations through your body?

I don't listen all that loud, so not generally. There's not much "help" from floor vibrations since it's a concrete slab. That said, I get some tactile sensation with certain program material.

 

[DWPress]

The subs themselves aren't anything too crazy—just Dayton RSS390HF-4s

I use the same driver in my sealed sub. Way more extension and functionality than the SVS in my mix, I plan to ditch the active SVS and replace it with another DIY sealed sub with a 12" Dayton in the same series.

 

[kawauso]

I use the same driver in my sealed sub. Way more extension and functionality than the SVS in my mix, I plan to ditch the active SVS and replace it with another DIY sealed sub with a 12" Dayton in the same series.

In my bedroom, I’m using Dayton Audio UM12-22 drivers in 30-liter sealed enclosures, and I must say Dayton is really impressive.

I’m not sure how they compare to commercial subwoofers in terms of performance,
but yesterday I turned them up to about 100 dB at the listening position (two subs combined),
and the bass still sounded clean and controlled.

Room gain certainly helps, but even so, I was expecting them to break up at that level—so I was genuinely surprised.

 

[DWPress]

Is that a passive set up? My 15" Dayton is in an old JBL box I heavily reinforced and sealed after I ripped the old plate amp off it and port. I can't see it, so it's fine.

 

[KenMasters]

These are yesterday's measurements post ART:

MMM response:

Group Delay:

Step Response:

RT:

Spectro:

Waterfall:

 

[kawauso]

These are yesterday's measurements post ART:

MMM response:
View attachment 493153

Group Delay:
View attachment 493154

Step Response:
View attachment 493155
RT:
View attachment 493159

Spectro:
View attachment 493157

Waterfall:
View attachment 493158

Excellent results. You're now officially a member of the ART Lovers Club. That RT60 around 0.4 seconds gives just the right amount of ambience, really well-balanced.