Let's have fun. Help me plan a dedicated audioroom.

[2Sunny]

I'm a firm believer in the old adage that it's not what you know that will give you trouble, but what you don't. With that in mind I'd love lots of input on this project. I hope folks here will bear with me and not groan with "another 2Sunny thread - ahhh" but take part in this conversation only if they will enjoy it. I'm only just starting to flush this idea out in my mind since I have only been active in the hobby for a few months now, but as part of my current thinking I now want a dedicated audio room mostly because I want to play movies and music at relatively loud levels and not disturb my wife, and the basement room I have in mind would be perfect in that regard, but I also would like to have a place to try out new equipment and swap items easily.

So . . . what advice do you have to offer for building a dedicated home theater? Also what questions should I be asking myself prior to starting?

Here are some preliminary thoughts:

Budget - $50k
Room - 16 x 14 x 9
speakers I already own - Revel F35, F36, F226Be, M16, C25. Ascend Acoustic ELX w/ titan tweeters, Sierra 1 V2, Sierra Horizon V2 center, SVS SB1000 x 4, SVS heights x 4
electronics I already own - Sony STR AZ7000ES, Outlaw 20000 monoblocks x 4
usage expected - % 89/10/1 movie/music/equipment testing

 

[suttondesign]

Avoid drywall. Use varied materials and surfaces to keep room modes tamed. Some beams, sections of wall with strips of diffusers, and built-in bookcases crammed full of books, mags, vinyl. A highly varied shoebox is much better than a shoebox. If possible, the area behind the listening position should be as open or absorptive or variegated as you can make it.

 

[JPA]

Do not avoid drywall, unless you have a moisture problem. The main problem with a basement (aside from moisture) is that the bass has nowhere to go, so the room will sound very boomy. To alleviate that you need to "float" the drywall by mounting it on springy resilient channel clips attached to the studs. That allows the drywall to absorb bass waves by flexing and moving in and out.

Read the documents on Toole's supplementary site here:
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/default.php

 

[Liberal Democracy]

Do not avoid drywall, unless you have a moisture problem. The main problem with a basement (aside from moisture) is that the bass has nowhere to go, so the room will sound very boomy. To alleviate that you need to "float" the drywall by mounting it on springy resilient channel clips attached to the studs. That allows the drywall to absorb bass waves by flexing and moving in and out.

Read the documents on Toole's supplementary site here:
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/default.php

This , From a drywall contractor .

Also look into glue / acoustic glue .

Honesty id seek professional acoustic advice and get a professional in to do the work with a clear objective to end use .

Don't bother with random folks on the Internet, even here at ASR .

 

[DVDdoug]

Sound treatment is different from soundproofing. Soundproofing is "construction" and expensive.

It might be worth consulting an acoustical architect but I don't know if that can be done for, say 10% of your budget. I assume these guys usually work on bigger commercial projects...

With your budget, you should be able to include an acoustics expert for the treatment. Or you can probably get some free advice/consulting if you buy enough treatment products.

When it comes to treatment my advice is always, "Diagnosis before treatment". REW is FREE but you need to spend about $100 USD on a calibrated measurement mic.

If you're not sure how many surround channels you may eventually want, run extra wires...

-----------------------------------
I read Geoff Emerick's book. (It's NOT a "how to" book.) He was the engineer on most of The Beatles albums and he built (actually re-built) the Apple studio. When he was working on it there was a terrorist bombing a few doors down. He didn't hear anything! He came out later and he was surprised to see firetrucks and the firemen were surprised to see him walking-out casually. He seemed to be proud of his soundproofing job!

 

[2Sunny]

This , From a drywall contractor .

Also look into glue / acoustic glue .

Honesty id seek professional acoustic advice and get a professional in to do the work with a clear objective to end use .

Don't bother with random folks on the Internet, even here at ASR .

I have zero idea of what a professional would cost, but wouldn't a pro build blow out my budget?

 

[2Sunny]

Do not avoid drywall, unless you have a moisture problem. The main problem with a basement (aside from moisture) is that the bass has nowhere to go, so the room will sound very boomy. To alleviate that you need to "float" the drywall by mounting it on springy resilient channel clips attached to the studs. That allows the drywall to absorb bass waves by flexing and moving in and out.

Read the documents on Toole's supplementary site here:
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/default.php

Wow. Thanks for the link. Tons to read. I'm thinking I'll just buy the book as well.

 

[2Sunny]

Found these guys online. They offer free consultations. Anyone here have an opinion about them?

GIK Acoustics

 

[Matt_Holland]

Seek professional advice for sure. I’ve heard that using drywall sheets of varying density and also varying the stud spacing can create tuned membranes of varying frequency bands that can help absorb standing waves.
Definitely read Toole’s book as well.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

I have zero idea of what a professional would cost, but wouldn't a pro build blow out my budget?

It's your home , do it once do it right . 50k ? God if thats not enough for a decent result id not know what to say .

Drywall is only a few sheets of board and basically DIY if ones got the time and half a brain .

The acoustics , thats where the challenge is but , you're never going to become a expert in time nor is trusting random guys online recommended , not for this . Once done its not easily or cheaply undone.

Member JPA gave you great advice , read up , get a consultant that can talk to your installers .

If you've no idea , your unlikely to be able to swat up in time to weed out whos making sense so , , best to seek a professional!

@mitchco might be able to help you .

 

[kemmler3D]

Found these guys online. They offer free consultations. Anyone here have an opinion about them?

GIK Acoustics

Haven't bought anything from them, but as far as my knowledge takes me their products are legit. The benefits are overstated in their marketing copy, but that's universal in consumer-facing acoustic treatment because the reality of what it takes to truly tame a room is closer to your budget then the typical $500.

My advice for your room:

Look into DBA, ART, or waveforming. Basically these are ways to use pairs of subs at each end of the room to cancel out excess bass. Needs 4-16 subs. Done right this unlocks the next level of bass quality and also should keep the rest of the house quieter.

Make sure you have a good amount of diffusion, not just absorption.

If you need bass traps look into membrane/ VPR traps, they aren't magic but AFAIK they are a more practical way to deal with very low frequency modes.

I noticed in your other thread you have some interest in racing, might be cool to fit a racing SIM rig in there, i imagine it would be pretty badass to play some of these modern Sims with a truly performant multichannel rig. I don't personally have the space, time, or spare cash, but I think it would be in reach for me if I'd prioritized other things in recent years... my understanding is that a pretty nice one of these would easily fit your budget.

 

[2Sunny]

Haven't bought anything from them, but as far as my knowledge takes me their products are legit. The benefits are overstated in their marketing copy, but that's universal in consumer-facing acoustic treatment because the reality of what it takes to truly tame a room is closer to your budget then the typical $500.

My advice for your room:

Look into DBA, ART, or waveforming. Basically these are ways to use pairs of subs at each end of the room to cancel out excess bass. Needs 4-16 subs. Done right this unlocks the next level of bass quality and also should keep the rest of the house quieter.

Make sure you have a good amount of diffusion, not just absorption.

If you need bass traps look into membrane/ VPR traps, they aren't magic but AFAIK they are a more practical way to deal with very low frequency modes.

I noticed in your other thread you have some interest in racing, might be cool to fit a racing SIM rig in there, i imagine it would be pretty badass to play some of these modern Sims with a truly performant multichannel rig. I don't personally have the space, time, or spare cash, but I think it would be in reach for me if I'd prioritized other things in recent years... my understanding is that a pretty nice one of these would easily fit your budget.

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but the giant can of worms I just opened is a bit intimidating. THIS I'll need to take some time with . . . phew. Thanks everyone. I'll of course keep the thread updated as I learn and make decisions

Already got the sim. They are unbelievably fun to drive and crazy realistic in terms of physics and the view. Obviously missing the "feel" of being on a track, but I come away sweating after a race on iRacing. They are excellent tools if you want to learn the line on a new track.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I found this interview and presentation by Anthony Grimani very insightful. He also discusses products by his brand Sonitus that look like good value. I’m afraid I can’t vouch for their quality or performance.

 

[suttondesign]

Do not avoid drywall, unless you have a moisture problem. The main problem with a basement (aside from moisture) is that the bass has nowhere to go, so the room will sound very boomy. To alleviate that you need to "float" the drywall by mounting it on springy resilient channel clips attached to the studs. That allows the drywall to absorb bass waves by flexing and moving in and out.

Read the documents on Toole's supplementary site here:
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/default.php

My experience is that isomax clips and resilient channel do a great job preventing sound from going to adjoining rooms, but not nearly as good at taming resonances as larger construction features.

 

[kemmler3D]

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but the giant can of worms I just opened is a bit intimidating. THIS I'll need to take some time with . . . phew. Thanks everyone. I'll of course keep the thread updated as I learn and make decisions

Already got the sim. They are unbelievably fun to drive and crazy realistic in terms of physics and the view. Obviously missing the "feel" of being on a track, but I come away sweating after a race on iRacing. They are excellent tools if you want to learn the line on a new track.

View attachment 458849View attachment 458851

Oh, very nice, guess I shouldn't be surprised about the sim. Looks like a good fun/cost/danger ratio compared to actual cars.

Acoustics is an involved and arcane topic, more so than speakers, and more is not always more, it is possible to spend a lot of money and only make things worse.

Measurement is trickier, goals are less obvious... I think it would be worth at least getting some estimates from professionals on this project, unless you're ready to read a bunch of books and even research papers to get hardcore about DIY.

Just like with other aspects of audio, a lot of what you read online is wrong... but in acoustics it's worse because the wrong stuff is often closer to right and harder to identify as wrong, or is right but turns out not to be applicable to your situation, etc. etc.

Truthfully I don't think most members here could whip up an ideal acoustic solution without working their way up the learning curve, I think there are just a small handful who could rightly claim to be experts in acoustics, even those of us with awkwardly high post counts.

I get the sense that you are looking for "best possible performance at a fairly high but not totally insane price point" - it's much harder to DIY an acoustic solution to that level, than it is to pick out stereo components that get you there. I actually used to sell acoustic treatment, and I don't think I would fully trust myself to aim and hit that target. I was just selling acoustic foam on Amazon, but still.

But as you've probably heard many times since joining, the room is arguably the biggest factor in what you hear, so it's worth doing right, and just throwing $$ at it won't necessarily work. You can get something truly awesome done with your budget, but it's a nuanced thing. So, a good next step IMO is finding out what it would cost to get a professional design done, it might be worth carving out some of the budget for that.

The foregoing doesn't apply to the DBA / ART stuff. That's even possible to DIY effectively and, luckily, makes your acoustics job easier if you design the room around it by diminishing the need for crazy bass trapping.

 

[levimax]

If you are going to use drywall be careful and get some good advice and think through the instalation details. In my room drywall is the limiting factor for LF. I have some large subs that go flat and high SPL to 17 Hz but starting around 20 Hz the drywall starts banging against the studs and it can be loud enough to ruin things. I don't think it can be fixed at this point so better if you can do it right in the first place.

 

[Nih Noh]

Consider building the speakers into the wall during your wall-finishing process. Flush-mounting speakers aligns their fronts with the wall surface and eliminates speaker boundary interference response. You'll need to use Room EQ Wizard (REW) or similar acoustic measurement software to find the best speaker positions. Test from your primary listening position, ensuring the room is staged with furniture similar to its final setup for accurate results.

CONS:
- This would reduce the room dimensions significantly
- The finished smaller room may not measure the same as the original unfinished room
- Difficult to relocate speakers

I've never done this before. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me could confirm this is a good idea.

 

[dualazmak]

Impressive and attractive project! I am very much looking forward to seeing your progress and goal of such a brave project and innovations.

My posts below on my project thread would be somewhat of your interest and reference, I assume.

- Perfect (0.1 msec precision) time alignment of all the SP drivers greatly contributes to amazing disappearance of SPs, tightness and cleanliness of the sound, and superior 3D sound stage: #520

- Not only the precision (0.1 msec level) time alignment over all the SP drivers but also SP facing directions and sound-deadening space behind the SPs plus behind our listening position would be critically important for effective (perfect?) disappearance of speakers: #687

 

[Oddball]

Great project and wish you luck. Lots of things to consider and great budget so second to hire some professional help. This is much more complicated than DIY project where you have the room you have and just need to decide on gear. There are so many decisions to consider. Use some of the existing speakers, go in-walls, go active...Also second the suggestion for bass management with either DBA (2x2 minimum, 4x4 even better) or ART or waweforming. Bass in the room of that size could be really amazing with the right tools and right build.

I ran across this review that is interesting and might have some relevant parts, or at least give some food for thought. Also one of the few reviews that has measured ART in reference system. Also emphasises the need to take special care is wall construction, as many have indicated. Reviewer had to take down a wall and rebuild as was resonating with all the power that was in the room. The only thing that left me scratching my head was the choice to use AVR to power the system. It certainly is admirable AVR - Focal Astral 16 - but given the overall level of investment few more amps would not break the bank. Might or might not matter, but certainly would not hurt.

Focal 1000 Utopia IWLCR & IWSUB Speaker System Review

Focal's 1000 Utopia and Astral 16 deliver reference grade performance from an in-wall speaker. Check out our exclusive, in-depth, Focal 1000 Series Theater installation and a sneak peek at Dirac ART.

www.audioholics.com

 

[2Sunny]

Impressive and attractive project! I am very much looking forward to seeing your progress and goal of such a brave project and innovations.

My posts below on my project thread would be somewhat of your interest and reference, I assume.

- Perfect (0.1 msec precision) time alignment of all the SP drivers greatly contributes to amazing disappearance of SPs, tightness and cleanliness of the sound, and superior 3D sound stage: #520

- Not only the precision (0.1 msec level) time alignment over all the SP drivers but also SP facing directions and sound-deadening space behind the SPs plus behind our listening position would be critically important for effective (perfect?) disappearance of speakers: #687

Looking briefly at your thread I'm thinking you're already at a PhD level and I'm still in kindergarten. Wow, very impressive. Not sure I'll ever go to that level of detail, but thanks for the link. Certainly opens my eyes to another avenue in the hobby.

Of course, I shouldn't be surprised because in my experience folks in Japan take their hobbies very seriously!