Let's get honest with SPL

[napfkuchen]

personal preferences (dBSPL measured by Genelec GLM):
ca. 60-70: "home-office-volume"
80-85: comfort-zone for enjoyment
85-95: extended comfort-zone (up to 30 minutes)

My perception is a certain volume (> 80) is needed to appreciate bass while loud music (> 90) can be exhausting/uncomfortable particularly due to harsh vocals and high-pitched sounds.

 

[hege]

while loud music (> 90) can be exhausting/uncomfortable particularly due to harsh vocals and high-pitched sounds.

Have you tried SCP to tilt/shelf highs, like from 100hz to atleast -5dB@20khz? Of course great acoustics also help a lot..

 

[killdozzer]

Here's a working proposition on how to go about this. I WILL need your help, though.

I'm thinking:
- the same song for everyone that doesn't have distortion and is not heavy in bass, since I also noticed I turn volume up for songs with no bass. Something like Hey Nineteen by Steely Dan - sounds clean and no heavy bass. (I know, some will find it boring and so do I quite frankly, but let's use it or you can come up with another title for everyone).

- I'm interested in how loud you still enjoy it, we're not talking about 10-15 sec cranking it up, at least half an hour of joyful listening

- I'm interested in music, not TV or movies, we can do a separate thread for those

- I can't stand pink noise, it's very unpleasant to me, I have a feeling people will never crank pink noise up as loud as some nice music, I don't know whether we can use it.

- music program has peaks and dips, I'm thinking about reading the average on the meter (they often show this value), if it's the same song, average should be fair, if you agree to this, the poll would have one single number as in; aprox. 75dB, aprox. 80dB and so on (tell me if you think this is wrong)

- there's no right here, I was just amazed reading some members saying they go over 90dB and I wanted to compare and see if they really withstand such loudness since I couldn't

- sure, hearing is different, but I am interested in how loud does it for you, again, there's no right (and I'm not interested in reference), you should turn it up not looking at such trivialities as where the volume knob is or what do peak meters show, just turn it up at what you like and enjoy when it comes to loud and then let's see what it is

- now the weighting; I don't care much about neighbors or police, I'm interested in human perception of loud sound, whether you have neighbors or not, how loud is the sound in your room (by reading your posts, this seems to be A, right?), this is also why I asked about listening position bc big room, small room close to speaker, far from speaker... this things shouldn't matter, only the SPL that reaches you and makes impact on you.

- of course, it'll come out different in treated rooms and untreated, but this will simply show in results and members can point out in comments - I'm listening in a room that has no treatment or with some and so on

- small rooms with a lot of reinforcement and reflections also show on meter at your LP, right? they do add dBs - like a sub next to a large wall is +1,5dB - this would show in measurements, I hope... same thing like 2 or 4 speakers, they add a few dB and you can measure that

Feel free to suggest what I'm missing.

 

[killdozzer]

I think slow A-weighting should be used for this kind of loudness comparison to even out program material and bass preferences..

What comes to phone apps... Decibel X on my Xiaomi 10 required +12dB of calibration, so be careful with those.

But can Decibel X work on Xiaomi when calibrated?

 

[killdozzer]

Mine will show even 10 hz. It just shows it about 40 db lower than it is relative to 100 hz.

10Hz sounds wrong... Can your system do 10Hz?

 

[hege]

But can Decibel X work on Xiaomi when calibrated?

Of course, calibrated is calibrated. Atleast when fully done with frequency response corrected. I just quickly tweaked the sensitivity, it's enough in the ballpark now.

 

[napfkuchen]

Have you tried SCP to tilt/shelf highs, like from 100hz to atleast -5dB@20khz? Of course great acoustics also help a lot..

Tried several presets and manual settings in the sound character profiler. However, I do like present highs, so attenuating them is not an option for me. But like you said acoustics would probably help a lot. The room is 5x6 m and except for a couch there is no other sound absorbing furniture. The floor is parquett, then there's a 5x2,2m window facade and a glass door. That's pretty much a worst case scenario ... Looking forward to moving into my own apartment next february where the music room will receive some acoustic treatment.

 

[killdozzer]

Well, again, I get 76dB average - A-weighted/slow with peaks at 82dB and dips at 71dB playing Hey Nineteen to have those keyboard strikes just under unpleasant. I'm in a 22 square meter (237 sq feet), untreated room.

And a few different tracks and it's always around 76dB. The average value is all over the place if you play a song with quiet intro or some fade-in or few first tones using just one instrument. That's why I started measuring when the song is in full swing.

 

[hege]

Well, again, I get 76dB average - A-weighted/slow with peaks at 82dB and dips at 71dB playing Hey Nineteen to have those keyboard strikes just under unpleasant. I'm in a 22 square meter (237 sq feet), untreated room.

Sounds entirely believable, I would guess for many that 75-80dBA is the upper scale for serious listening. Depending on material C/Z-weighting will display +10dB or more.

 

[killdozzer]

Depending on material

Yes, Megadeth immediately showed avg. 79dB! Seriously!

 

[Sokel]

Ok,did a little test I will not try to decipher.
Song is Evanescence - Artifact The Turn which has some interesting low at some point.
Started at 70-75db,but...

 

[sarumbear]

Seeing all the hoopla over iOS etc., I did a few tests.

I dusted off an ancient Radio Shack SPL Meter. It doesn't specify A or C weighting. Based on the results, I think it is an unweighted measurement of astounding accuracy. Especially when considering its vintage. There is no model number or other identifier other than made in Japan written on the bottom.
...
I also dragged out of my tool box an economical Extech 407730 SPL meter and my iPhone running Studio Six Digital's basic SPL app and internal iPhone mic. For the phone test I sat the phone on top of the RS meter.
...
To compare the meters I set them all on slow and A and C scales. The Radio Shack was set to Slow and 80dB. I set the Class 1 unit to A, C, and Unweighted or Z weighting. I also took 20 sec or longer Leq measurements for the greatest accuracy.

On the A scale the Class 1 meter showed 76.4 dB, the Extech 78.2, and the iOS 76.4
On the C scale the Class 1 meter showed 81.5 dB, the Extech 83.3 and the iOS 81.4
...
Based on this sample of 1, it appears the iOS device is pretty darned good.

Thank you for showing these tests. I hope this will put an end to Smartphone tests are not reliable belief to a rest.

I understand that everyone has certain things they don't like for various reasons, maybe Smartphones are one of them but why argue without data and with no objective reason?

 

[sarumbear]

A few things to reconcile:

1. Most OSHA charts say dB(A), and many here are using C, or other bands…
   1. What is the right one to use?
   2. And why?
2. Perceptually low distortion system sound quieter, and listening to a high distortion system at 70dB and describing it as “more than loud enough.” Does not say much for those with low distortion systems that find they need 5-10 dB more SPL to hit the same perceptual volume.

dB(A) is a heavily weighted measurement used for noise measuring
dB(C) is a lightly weighted measurement used for music measuring

There are charts posted on this thread that shows the weighting of each.

 

[Sokel]

Looking at my logger results above (even if they would be massively wrong,please test the same for yourselves to have a reference) I think the one that concerns me the most is Sound Exposure Level (LZE).
Is so easy to overlook it sometimes.

 

[killdozzer]

I hope this will put an end to Smartphone tests are not reliable belief to a rest.

This is close to a double negative... Do you think we CAN use them or we CAN'T use them?

 

[hege]

Thank you for showing these tests. I hope this will put an end to Smartphone tests are not reliable belief to a rest

Incorrect, only thing it proves is what we know already. Apple is standard and software that is pre-calibrated works. Android can vary a lot. Unless you know your software and calibration is good, you can't be sure about anything. The same as with any random microphone you buy. Even UMIK-1 can come with faulty calibration, you can't know unless you compare to something else.

 

[sarumbear]

Looking at my logger results above (even if they would be massively wrong,please test the same for yourselves to have a reference) I think the one that concerns me the most is Sound Exposure Level (LZE).
Is so easy to overlook it sometimes.

In the UK and in the EU we have pretty strict rules and councils monitor audio levels strictly. I copied the section on levels from our government website.

What are the action values and limit values?​

The Noise Regulations require you to take specific action at certain action values. These relate to:

• the levels of exposure to noise of your employees averaged over a working day or week; and
• the maximum noise (peak sound pressure) to which employees are exposed in a working day.

The values are:

• lower exposure action values:
  • daily or weekly exposure of 80 dB(A)
  • peak sound pressure of 135 dB(C)

Noise: Employers responsibilities - legal duties

The Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 (Noise Regulations 2005) require employers to prevent or reduce risks to health and safety from exposure to noise at work.

www.hse.gov.uk

As @Sokel said, it is easy to overlook how you may be hurting yourself with high SPL. The talk about listening at 90+dBSPL levels makes me cringe, knowing that the person is slowly but permanently damaging their hearing.

Look after your ears. For an audio/music enthusiast hearing loss is a terrible thing...

 

[sarumbear]

This is close to a double negative... Do you think we CAN use them or we CAN'T use them?

I will try to make it easier for you to understand.

I hope this will put an end to Smartphone tests are not reliable belief to a rest.

"This" in the above sentence is the belief as in "Smartphone tests are not reliable belief". I was hoping for that belief to be put to rest. In other words it will no longer be believed in. Here is another way of saying the same thing.

I hope that people will stop wrongly believing that smartphone tests are not reliable.

To answer your question, yes, obviously you can use a good smartphone app on an iPhone as Mr. Widget very kindly proved that they are accurate.

I had in the past tested Audio Tools app on an iPhone in the past and found it to be within Class-2 level accurate. It is nice to see that another person has confirmed my tests. However, I have no knowledge about Android world, neither on their apps nor the phones that use it.

 

[killdozzer]

I will try to make it easier for you to understand.

I hope this will put an end to Smartphone tests are not reliable belief to a rest.

"This" in the above sentence is the belief as in "Smartphone tests are not reliable belief". I was hoping for that belief to be put to rest. In other words it will no longer be believed in. Here is another way of saying the same thing.

I hope that people will stop wrongly believing that smartphone tests are not reliable.

To answer your question, yes, obviously you can use a good smartphone app on an iPhone as Mr. Widget very kindly proved that they are accurate.

I had in the past tested Audio Tools app on an iPhone in the past and found it to be within Class-2 level accurate. It is nice to see that another person has confirmed my tests. However, I have no knowledge about Android world, neither on their apps nor the phones that use it.

I'll take your word for it, but when you say you want to put an end to putting something to a rest, it sounds a bit different!

 

[sarumbear]

I'll take your word for it, but when you say you want to put an end to putting something to a rest, it sounds a bit different!

Maybe for you but in English it means as I used it.

lay/put (something) to rest​

idiom​

: to make someone stop thinking about or believing (something) by showing it is not true
I want to lay/put to rest any lingering doubts about my decision.
You can lay/put those worries to rest now.

Definition of LAY/PUT (SOMETHING) TO REST

to make someone stop thinking about or believing (something) by showing it is not true… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com