LEO BODNAR LBE-1421 Review (Clock Generator)

[NTTY]

Which McDonalds are you frequenting?

Probably one in Zurich

 

[NTTY]

That was an interesting test, thank you!

Any chance you could run a multi tone test as well? I wonder if that might show any differences / improvements?

I was reading your test of the SMSL D200. Not unusually, it seemed to get a bit mushy at low frequencies.

View attachment 496862

Thanks and good idea!

Here you go, the common parameters are:

• SMSL D200 variable pre mode, volume set at 0dB (5Vrms output max)
• 48kHz sample rate
• Multitone 1/10 decade @-10dBFS RMS (-0.49dBFS pk)
• FFT length 1M, 32 averages, BlackMan-Harris 7 window, 93.75% max overlap

The two trace are the same. The LEO BODNAR does not improve things here.

Cheers

 

[NTTY]

For audio, the stability aspect is of no real use. How long term stability affects audio is that Rubinsteins piano play A (440Hz) today, but also 50 years from now.

What could be usable is a really low close-in phase noise - that would mean that the presented graph should read -120dBc instead of -70dBc at 1Hz.

//

I'd be interested in testing such a word clock

That said, and this is why I created the little table to show the difference between the LEO BODNAR and the SMSL G1, as the later shows 30dB better attenuation at 1Hz. I thought it would make a difference, but obviously I can't measure that benefit. So, at the moment, I guess -70dBc at 1Hz is more than sufficient to get the benefits I measured.

Now, like I said, I'd love testing another DAC with a clock input to check if the same benefits repeat the same way.

 

[welwynnick]

The two trace are the same. The LEO BODNAR does not improve things here.

Thank you!
I thought that because you measured slightly less spreading on the foot of the 1kHz fundamental with the TEAC when zoomed in to a 1kHz span, that you might see similar improvement at the lower freque3ncies with the multitone where a few Hz might make a difference.
But as you say, no, that's not the cause or the solution. Thank you for trying.

 

[NTTY]

Thank you!
I thought that because you measured slightly less spreading on the foot of the 1kHz fundamental with the TEAC when zoomed in to a 1kHz span, that you might see similar improvement at the lower freque3ncies with the multitone where a few Hz might make a difference.
But as you say, no, that's not the cause or the solution. Thank you for trying.

That's why it was a good idea to suggest
Unfortunately, with multitone, the noise floor is more elevated and so what you saw with a single tone, is buried into noise with multitone.
Look at the below overlay, I added a single tone played at -10dBFS too, with the same parameters I provided earlier. See how the noise floor is much lower with the single tone:

Also, this was from a CD player, involving SPDIF transmission and that is where the LEO BODNAR showed an advantage, so ideally I would need to run two multitone tests from the CD Player. I'll do that later.
Cheers

 

[Rja4000]

Thanks and good idea!

Here you go, the common parameters are:

• SMSL D200 variable pre mode, volume set at 0dB (5Vrms output max)
• 48kHz sample rate
• Multitone 1/10 decade @-10dBFS RMS (-0.49dBFS pk)
• FFT length 1M, 32 averages, BlackMan-Harris 7 window, 93.75% max overlap

View attachment 496960

The two trace are the same. The LEO BODNAR does not improve things here.

Maybe you could try the AP multitone with No FFT Window...
With or without the clock.

 

[Rja4000]

with multitone, the noise floor is more elevate

Not exactly.
The single frequency peaks are actually lower.
Because crest factor is much higher.
Also, and probably for that reason, you say you run it at -10dBFS.

 

[NTTY]

Maybe you could try the AP multitone with No FFT Window...

You have to have an FFT window

 

[FrantzM]

So which DACs have an external clock input that could take advantage of this thing? I know there are some, but it isn’t a common feature.

Since you are asking, and I am in a playful mood:

• dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC: around $46,500 to $48,800 USD.
• dCS Rossini APEX DAC: around $32,800 to $34,500 USD.
• dCS Lina Network DAC: Taround $14,400 USD.

That was the first brand that came to mind... since this $155 would work as well as their:

• dCS Lina Master Clock: Around $8,150 USD
• dCS Rossini Master Clock: Around $12,100 USD
• dCS Vivaldi Master Clock: Around $24,100 USD

Sorry I could not resist ..

 

[NTTY]

Not exactly.
The single frequency peaks are actually lower.
Because crest factor is much higher.
Also, and probably for that reason, you say you run it at -10dBFS.

That's why I specified -10dBFS RMS for both.

If I run the single tone at 0dBFS, then its noise floor is out of the graph:

Same results with the AP multitone, with internal and external clock.

 

[VientoB]

Since you are asking and I am in a playful mood:

• dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC: around $46,500 to $48,800 USD.
• dCS Rossini APEX DAC: around $32,800 to $34,500 USD.
• dCS Lina Network DAC: Taround $14,400 USD.

That was the first brand that came to mind... since this $155 would work as well as their:

• dCS Lina Master Clock: Around $8,150 USD
• dCS Rossini Master Clock: Around $12,100 USD
• dCS Vivaldi Master Clock: Around $24,100 USD

Sorry I could not resist ..

So basically they should make a premium version in a fancy box to compliment that sort of DAC.

 

[NTTY]

Since you are asking and I am in a playful mood:

• dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC: around $46,500 to $48,800 USD.
• dCS Rossini APEX DAC: around $32,800 to $34,500 USD.
• dCS Lina Network DAC: Taround $14,400 USD.

That was the first brand that came to mind... since this $155 would work as well as their:

• dCS Lina Master Clock: Around $8,150 USD
• dCS Rossini Master Clock: Around $12,100 USD
• dCS Vivaldi Master Clock: Around $24,100 USD

Sorry I could not resist ..

The dCS Vivaldi clock accepts an external reference, such as one generated by a GPS receiver

 

[Rja4000]

You have to have an FFT window

You don't.
But it may be called "rectangle" or whatever else.

The AP multitone is optimized for lowest crest factor and each tone is in the middle of an FFT bin.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Since you are asking and I am in a playful mood:

• dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC: around $46,500 to $48,800 USD.
• dCS Rossini APEX DAC: around $32,800 to $34,500 USD.
• dCS Lina Network DAC: Taround $14,400 USD.

That was the first brand that came to mind... since this $155 would work as well as their:

• dCS Lina Master Clock: Around $8,150 USD
• dCS Rossini Master Clock: Around $12,100 USD
• dCS Vivaldi Master Clock: Around $24,100 USD

Sorry I could not resist ..

Well, dCS has a pro gear background so I’ll give them a pass on this—but not on their pricing.

 

[NTTY]

You don't.
But it may be called "rectangle" or whatever else.

The AP multitone is optimized for lowest crest factor and each tone is in the middle of an FFT bin.

Oh, ok, so I understand you're not a REW's user.

Rectangular window generates too much leakage and is not adapted, especially from a signal not created by REW's generator

I run the MT test of REW with "Minimise crest factor" set.

The AP test file can't be used with Rectangular window, too much leakage:

 

[FrantzM]

Well, dCS has a pro gear background so I’ll give them a pass on this—but not on their pricing.

PLEASE don't .. They did start in Pro, but devolved into a money grabbing outfit...Snake Oil purveyor.

 

[VientoB]

PLEASE don't .. They did start in Pro, but devolved into a money grabbing outfit...Snake Oil purveyor.

Agreed. There's no justification for their pricing.

 

[jhenderson0107]

I use one of these to help tune my radio.

​

 

[TNT]

$155: About the price of a McDonald's Big Mac Meal

Where do you live... I thought that would be 15 usd...

//

 

[Rja4000]

Oh, ok, so I understand you're not a REW's user.

Rectangular window generates too much leakage and is not adapted, especially from a signal not created by REW's generator

I run the MT test of REW with "Minimise crest factor" set.

The AP test file can't be used with Rectangular window, too much leakage:

View attachment 497032

It's not a matter of which tool you're using.
It's just that DAC and ADC clocks have to be sufficiently in sync.
And, of course, that the source signal is built to set each frequency in the middle of a FFT bin.

The AP MT signal Amir shared works perfectly with rectangular window at 48kHz 32k FFT size, and also 192kHz 128k FFT size (which has the exact same bin width).

Of course, if you use a different bin width, it will be a different story.