Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

[thunderchicken]

Yeah, I don't think there's much concern at all that Erin or Amir would actually lose a lawsuit here. The concern is simply that Erin would have to foot a large bill defending himself against one and/or that the mere threat of one would lead to him no longer giving any negative reviews.

I get that, between the money and the stress, no one should get involved for a dispute of less than $50k. Broadly speaking, the winner gets attorneys fees (at least here in WA), which are often much more than the damages award. I have some *hypothetical* stories about my time in the trenches on insurance defense.

Big picture- threats aren't worth anything. It costs an obscene amount of money to properly work up a case. $60k to get to an MSJ. It's only a few hundred bucks to file the suit, but that immediately opens you up to losing on frivolity grounds and the aforementioned MSJ. It's one thing to bully someone with $500 in filing and service fees. It's another entirely to pay tens of thousands to move the ball an inch or two past that.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Hey folks, I am a bit late on this.

Let me say this upfront: what is happening here is absolutely, completely unacceptable.

Seriously, what is this ? Did manufacturers start to feel so untouchable, after they received nothing but praising "reviews" for decades ? Is that the future drown for the Audio "press" and reviewers by now ? To be condamned to remain gentle about anything forever... or be threatened by a mafia ? Nope. We cannot accept this. We just can't.

If this Tekton guy is not confortable with Erin's data and measurements : He has to produce his own, then come back with something solid for a fair comparaison. If he just want to shut him down only for his subjective feedback and thoughts, then I feel like that would be even worse. Where the fuck is our freedom of speech in that ? Seriously, what is going on in this industry ?

I have modest means but I would be happy to contribute.

@amirm what you are doing here is extremely important. What we are doing here is important. No one here should tolerate such a situation. If we let this happen, then this is the death of so many things that are the essence of this very place : objectivism, integrity, ethics, rigour.

 

[fredoamigo]

He won't win I think. Erin attempted confirmation of operation, is attempting to remedy the situation and is acting in good faith.

In any case, we must stand together in this story, because we mustn't lose sight of the fact that the others will always be more numerous, and that the fight against the deceptions and lies of audio will never end.
A big thank you to Amir, because even if he'll never go on holiday with Erin, he's proving his great intelligence and compassion here.

 

[Geertidow]

I second that, happy to contribute something

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

What Erin likely needs is a defamation lawyer, and the chance of randomly finding, on this forum, someone licensed to practice in either Tekton or Erin's state is... well, good luck. While all of the legal strategizing in this thread is surely made with good intentions, it really just ends up adding to the noise. IMO, if Erin's reading this thread, he just needs a referral to a decent defamation/media lawyer and a bit of money, which seems to be what the crowdfunding is for. There are various ways to get referrals, ask around, find a local bar association, etc. Referrals don't cost money. A reputable lawyer will most likely be able to have a very brief preliminary discussion with you before asking for a retainer, to help you figure out whether you wish to spend money on this.

End of advice; speculation below.
I don't think he needs a war chest though. Tekton's likely bluffing. Even my basic knowledge of defamation law knows they have no case. I think he just needs someone to write a strongly worded response. Are we even sure Tekton sent a C&D through a real lawyer? Or did Erin receive a threat directly from Tekton PR? Even if Erin got a letter from a lawyer, I bet the demand letter is all they have planned. I doubt they have anything budgeted to actually pursue this case.

 

[DanielT]

If Erin re-measures the Tekton speakers, he should document, with witnesses, that the measuring equipment is calibrated and that there are witnesses who can verify that the measurement is carried out according to the current standard.

The manufacturer should be given the opportunity to comment on how he believes the measurement should be carried out. That way there are no other aspects would appear after the measurement is completed. This is to minimize the risk that it would be the same re-measurement debacle that has just happened.

The manufacturer can also, if Erin's new results do not turn out well (in the manufacturer's eyes), claim that there is something wrong with the speaker that was measured so Erin should measure two speakers of the same model.

There's probably more to think about but that's what I came up with right now.

 

[amirm]

Are we even sure Tekton sent a C&D through a real lawyer? Or did Erin receive a threat directly from Tekton PR?

If I were to guess, I say it is the latter.

 

[EERecordist]

I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

Many states have anti-SLAPP laws. SLAPP is Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation. The laws vary by state, so where a suit is filed can make a difference. Review sites and individual reviewers have successfully used anti-SLAPP laws as a defense in these cases.

 

[amirm]

If Erin re-measures the Tekton speakers, he should document, with witnesses, that the measuring equipment is calibrated and that there are witnesses who can verify that the measurement is carried out according to the current standard.

The manufacturer should be given the opportunity to comment on how he believes the measurement should be carried out. That way there are no other aspects than what led to Erin now re-measuring the speakers.

The manufacturer can also, if Erin's new results do not turn out well (in the manufacturer's eyes), claim that there is something wrong with the speaker that was measured so Erin should measure two speakers of the same model.

It is simpler than that. Company owner post under Erin's youtube video that their measurements is different than Erin's. I asked Eric to post his measurements. He has not. If he was bluffing and he a) doesn't have proper measurements or b) they are not different than Erin's, then there is nothing more Erin needs to do.

 

[restorer-john]

So let me get this straight: the manufacturer spat his dummy because Erin reviewed his speakers with holes in them and didn't plug those holes with feet he didn't know about even after contacting the manufacturer for advice prior to testing them? LOL.

Seriously, what loudspeaker has holes in the base right through to the cavity? I've never, ever seen that. Plenty of captive nuts, mounting threads etc and NONE are drilled all the way through.

Last time this happened in a review was with March's Sointuva with holes right through in the banana jacks he didn't know about.

Is there more to it I missed?

 

[DanielT]

It is simpler than that. Company owner post under Erin's youtube video that their measurements is different than Erin's. I asked Eric to post his measurements. He has not. If he was bluffing and he a) doesn't have proper measurements or b) they are not different than Erin's, then there is nothing more Erin needs to do.

Aha, okay.

I mostly thought if Erin wanted both braces and a lap belt on himself, so to speak, so that he could not be accused of any wrongdoing afterwards.

 

[Rja4000]

If Tekton is really concerned about bad PR

"It’s better to be criticized than ignored"

They managed to have Erin and us making noise out of this.

It may look to them like free advertisement.
Especially if they are convinced that their customers are somehow allergic to measurements.


Of course, I'll contribute if needed.

 

[DanielT]

This is the biggest surprise:

View attachment 361716
(from youtube comments above).

Missed your post earlier.Interesting.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

All I can say is...a fat lot of good the company has done for itself.

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

I went back and checked Erin's original posts, and there's nothing in them about legal threats or a lawsuit. Tekton "raised concens" and Erin pulled the original review out of due diligence. Critically, Erin does not state whether Tekton specifically demanded a retraction, or Erin volunteered it.

I don't mean to diminish the unnecessary stress he must be under, but I don't think this whole kerfuffle rises to something requiring a legal defense fund. At least not yet, based on public information we have. I feel Amir's post sorta exaggerates Erin's potential exposure by mentioning a "lawsuit." Maybe Erin's downplaying it in public posts but personally does feel a threat of litigation. Maybe Amir had background discussions informing his "lawsuit" suggestion. But just going by what Erin has actually disclosed on this matter, it seems the legal discourse in this thread is all a bit of an overreaction.

EDIT: sorry that I have also unnecessarily contributed to the legal discourse overreaction!
EDIT2: I stand corrected. The threats of litigation are mentioned in another Erin post. Amir is definitely not exaggerating Tekton's scumbaggery.

 

[Beave]

I went back and checked Erin's original posts, and there's nothing in them about legal threats or a lawsuit. Tekton "raised concens" and Erin pulled the original review out of due diligence. Critically, Erin does not state whether Tekton specifically demanded a retraction, or Erin volunteered it.

I don't mean to diminish the unnecessary stress he must be under, but I don't think this whole kerfuffle rises to something requiring a legal defense fund. At least not yet, based on public information we have. I feel Amir's post sorta exaggerates Erin's potential exposure by mentioning a "lawsuit." Maybe Erin's downplaying it in public posts but personally does feel a threat of litigation. Maybe Amir had background discussions informing his "lawsuit" suggestion. But just going by what Erin has actually disclosed on this matter, it seems the legal discourse in this thread is all a bit of an overreaction.

EDIT: sorry that I have also unnecessarily contributed to the legal discourse overreaction!

I'm not sure, because I don't follow Erin's private/payer sites, but from what I understand, he *did* say to one of his groups of supporters that he was in need of legal advice/counsel regarding all of this. And I doubt he would say that unless he had been threatened.

 

[amirm]

I went back and checked Erin's original posts, and there's nothing in them about legal threats or a lawsuit.

You haven't looked hard enough:

 

[Beave]

Yep, I was just about to post the same thing.

It was discussed on an ASR thread here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/tekton-m-lore-speaker-review.48732/page-19

 

[antcollinet]

Streisand effect incoming.

Perhaps an effective strategy would be to get as many audio consumers as possible to email the company stating they'll never buy from someone who sues honest reviewers.

 

[NeoZs99]

To be fair in his review those speakers seemed to be alright.. What a shitshow from Tekton, but it ain't the first time. Long ago they apparently made reviewers sign an NDA to get measurements, etc. Then there was the Tekton Lore :

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/63949-gut-shots-of-a-tekton-lore?244560-Gut-Shots-Of-A-Tekton-Lore=