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Leaving Roon, Qobuz and Tidal

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Jimbob54

Jimbob54

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After a few weeks trialling I have reached the following conclusions :

1 . Amazon Music is great and contains two of my key requirements. It allows a comprehensive shuffle of all my music (local and streaming combined) other streaming apps dont seem to have this (or even a "shuffle all" for the streaming library, nevermind local too). So two birds with one stone there. Its nowhere near as slick as Roon with Tidal or Qobuz but it works and is going to be about £4 a month including HD as Im sharing it with family and buying an annual sub. No brainer.

2. AM doesnt work with the library integration / management services ( I use Soundiiz)- they have locked down their APIs- so lots of manual migration

3. AM has terrible apps - just bad. But on PC its just about enough but when I start doing whole library shuffles its a CPU/RAM hog

4. Spotify is great, especially in car for integration with Google maps etc - good if playing via bluetooth when mobile too. But, again, no full library shuffle I can find and poor integration of local files. So I am keeping it as an add on to my wife's account and will use when driving. Great for recommendations (I find the Release Radar playlist works well)

5. I couldnt really get on with Spotify/ Wavelet on mobile to allow EQ. The Auto EQ integration on Wavelet is clever but I want more flexibility in the parameters

6. Given the above, I have gone back to Tidal (but only the lossy service) for integration with UAPP on my Android phone. When using my dongle DACs I love the integration , 10 Band PEQ, Crossfeed etc.

So, all in all, for my use cases, there really isnt one streaming service to rule them all. Tidal Hifi is too expensive- I can get Amazon, the spotify "duo" bolt on AND Tidal lossy MP£ thing all for about the same monthly cost as Tidal Hifi, and I dont really want to support MQA. Also, Tidal also lack the local file integration and whole library shuffle so not a full use solution.

Qobuz without Roon providing the front end is woeful and not a whole use solution.

In short- the software provider that builds the following will clean up (for me):

  1. Good PC and Android apps
  2. Built in 10+ band PEQ with other DSP
  3. Integrates multiple streaming services, not just Tidal and Qobuz . I appreciate UAPP/ Roon have only managed to integrate Qobuz/ Tidal as Spotify, AMazon etc dont WANT to play with them- this is very frustrating being limited to their homegrown apps.
  4. Works well with USB DACs- hardware volume etc
  5. Integrates local files seamlessly and allows full library shuffle
Not going to happen, I know. But I would pay $100 or so for a one time license if someone did it.
 

DeLub

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I agree that there is no one service to rule them all at this moment. The ones I can compare are AM, Spotify and Qobuz. Some comments, though:
ad 2: I've used SongShift to transfer all my playlists, and it worked great!

Also it is possible to shuffle over my complete library (offline and online) on AM. AM also includes some basic album management like Roon does. But I have to admit I miss that part of Roon.
 

Jmudrick

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I'll likely leave Qobuz when Spotify lossless kicks in. I'm trialing Apple Music but no DLNA support and no gapless to Chromecast are deal killers.
 
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Jimbob54

Jimbob54

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I'm curious what difficulties users here have had with Qobuz. It's working well for me using the Bluesound Node and associated app.
For me playlists maxing at 1000 tracks is enough to kill it. But depends how you want to manage and play your music.
 
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Jimbob54

Jimbob54

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I agree that there is no one service to rule them all at this moment. The ones I can compare are AM, Spotify and Qobuz. Some comments, though:
ad 2: I've used SongShift to transfer all my playlists, and it worked great!

Also it is possible to shuffle over my complete library (offline and online) on AM. AM also includes some basic album management like Roon does. But I have to admit I miss that part of Roon.
I was wondering about the library management. Sometimes it seems to merge the local and online versions into one. But then it shows both sets of track lists merged a duplicated , which is pointless. What's your experience?
 

DeLub

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I was wondering about the library management. Sometimes it seems to merge the local and online versions into one. But then it shows both sets of track lists merged a duplicated , which is pointless. What's your experience?
I only have albums in my local library that are unavailable on AM. So, not sure
 
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Jimbob54

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I only have albums in my local library that are unavailable on AM. So, not sure

Ah. Thats where Roon was great. If it detected you had an album on Qobuz and local, it would "hide" the one it considered the lower quality. No such look with Amazon, and (as far as I can tell) you cant "hide" / remove local files from your Amazon library- they reappear when you next launch the app. I can live with that
 

MarkS

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I'm curious what difficulties users here have had with Qobuz.
1) Completely useless classical music search.
2) Too many tracks missing (unlicensed).
Apple-specific problem:
3) No in-app option to stream to Airplay.
 

MaxBuck

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1) Completely useless classical music search.
2) Too many tracks missing (unlicensed).
Apple-specific problem:
3) No in-app option to stream to Airplay.
Got it.

Only service with even halfway decent classical search, OTOH, appears to be Idagio.
 

gvl

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Have you looked into LMS? I'm using Daphile, and it supports Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify and integrates all sources into one library (well, unsure about Tidal as I'm not a subscriber but I see my Qobuz/Spotify albums). Free. Runs on minimal hardware. No PEQ afaik but it supports convolution filters with BruteFIR. Has Android apps to control it, I use Squeezer. Interface is not super polished and flashy but functional. No Amazon music sadly.
 
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Jimbob54

Jimbob54

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Have you looked into LMS? I'm using Daphile, and it supports Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify and integrates all sources into one library (well, unsure about Tidal as I'm not a subscriber but I see my Qobuz/Spotify albums). Free. Runs on minimal hardware. No PEQ afaik but it supports convolution filters with BruteFIR. Has Android apps to control it, I use Squeezer. Interface is not super polished and flashy but functional. No Amazon music sadly.

Someone mentioned that a while ago. There was a reason it wouldnt suit me but cant remember what. May have been the EQ .
 

ehowarth

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No in-app option to stream to Airplay.
Qobuz supports AirPlay 1 and 2. Tap this icon:
373FC259-660C-4950-9261-70153EF4D022.jpeg
 

gvl

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There was a reason it wouldnt suit me but cant remember what. May have been the EQ .

You can use REW to generate PEQ impulse response and then load it in Daphile. It's an extra step but it works as long as you don't need to change EQ settings often. It has built-in graphic EQ, but it is naturally not as precise.
 

MarkS

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Qobuz supports AirPlay 1 and 2. Tap this icon:
My iPhone 6 doesn't have that icon, because the Qobuz app doesn't support it in IOS12, the higest version my phone will run.

On my Mac laptop (which runs the latest macOS), apparently Apple isn't friendly about letting third parties run Airplay:
As of macOS 10.14, there is no public API for third-party developers to integrate AirPlay 2 into their macOS apps. However, there are third-party streamers such as Airfoil. In May 2019, a third-party developer released a macOS app that can stream audio using AirPlay 2.[14] The app includes a helper tool called "AirPlay Enabler" that uses code injection to bypass restrictions to the AirPlay 2 private API on macOS.[15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPlay
 

ctakim

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If you already have a local music library, perhaps consider abandoning the need to merge local and streaming? If you're okay with that, I would recommend:

1. Plex for your local files. Excellent desktop / web browser and mobile apps — simple and polished UX, reliable streaming to mobile devices and support for all kinds of media. Plex pass ($120, often found on sale for $80) gives you local syncing and access to an even better music-focused app PlexAmp, which is available on all platforms. Plex also has pretty basic EQ (which doesn't really matter since you have the Qudelix 5K and Peace)

2. For new music discovery / streaming, you have a few options, depending on your needs and budget:

- Youtube - free, good for quick lookup before you buy and download
- Last.fm - what @seyl3r said above + collected information about your listening habits is used to generate recommendations, which are pretty good! It heavily depends on what you listen to of course, I found that last.fm is better with niche artists/genres than Spotify or Apple Music.
- Spotify - because your wife already has it, you can EQ with Wavelet and they're bound to announce a lossless tier now that Apple put their foot forward!
Are you happy with Plex for music files? I have not found it to be great for that, but I do like how it organizes my home movies. I've also been less happy with their effort to become a third-party commercial streaming video service.
 

Rottmannash

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Have you looked into Audirvana's latest updated app? Local and streaming, app for phone, etc.
 

Phorize

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So many platforms needing to be something we can’t get off of. Glad I read this. I mainly use qobuz over upnp to moode, and have about 400 cds on a hard drive. I was tempted to try roon just because of valance/general slickness. Your post has cured me of that. Although Roons market penetration is tiny in the grand scheme of things, it is a defecto competitor of Qobuz as it gets close to rendering the source of the music irrelevant. Qobuz can’t have that, it is paramount that they control the user experience, else what is their usp? I don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t see these sorts of issues ever going away for any software that abstracts multiple sources,

Despite my cynicism I will stay in Qobuz’s walled garden and remain none the wiser about what happens outside.
 
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