Lavaudio DS600 Review (Stereo DAC)

[Veri]

As you noted, the 1.2 has higher maximum output than the 1.1. If you feed it's max output to an amp that cannot handle it, then it would of course sound different as the amp's input distorts. A valid comparison would require the 1.2's variable output be lowered to match that of the D50.

Not to mention, harder to compare these different max outputs if not precision volume matched..

 

[Radioman55]

I am skeptical of your conclusion. The DS600 DAC outputs could not sound much different from the D50 unless Lavaudio is totally falsifying its published measurements of the 1.2. Lavaudio's published measurements of the v1.1 are extremely close to what Amirm measured.

If you read Amir's test, the weakness of the headphone out should be no surprise to you. There is no headphone amp...they just ran wires from the read audio outs to the front 3.5mm jack.

As you noted, the 1.2 has higher maximum output than the 1.1. If you feed it's max output to an amp that cannot handle it, then it would of course sound different as the amp's input distorts. A valid comparison would require the 1.2's variable output be lowered to match that of the D50.

I have a v1.1 and a D50 and they sound identical to me. Of course, the headphone output of the 1.1, while weak, is a good bit louder than that on the D50. I got in on the brief half off deal on a black 1.2 last week, it arrives Monday so I should be able to directly compare then and provide another subjective opinion..

I am comparing v1.2 with D50s (not D50) thought the D50s sounds better irrespective of the bumped up RCA output of 2.85v, etc.
Indeed specs on Lavaudio site differ from what is published on Amazon and appears as if the manufacturer has no idea of what is really being sold via third party vendors!

 

[GGroch]

I am comparing v1.2 with D50s (not D50) thought the D50s sounds better irrespective of the bumped up RCA output of 2.85v, etc....

The vast majority of ASR members believe that differences between modern well designed DACS are virtually impossible to hear. If there are differences, they are extremely tiny. In this case, because the D50, D50s, and DS600 v1.1 have all been measured by Amir, their excellent measurements prove that all three sound the same. Because any differences would be extremely tiny, if you are experiencing easy to hear differences, then there must be other factors at work that impact the sound.

Those factors might include:
1. Expectation/Confirmation bias, all of us have it. It is impossible to overcome without blind A/B testing which you did not do. We all hear it, its how our ears/brains work. It is real, not imagined.
2. Volume differences, as Veri said these are impossible to compensate for without measurement with a volt or sound meter. In most cases louder sources subjectively sound better. But as I pointed out earlier anything significantly above 2v can overdrive the input section of some amplifiers...causing clearly audible distortion.
3. Your new DS600 is defective
4. Lavaudio is lying about the specs of the v1.2 which are actually far worse than the v1.1 or any other recently measured desktop DAC. I think that this is extremely unlikely, but its possible.

However, if you can describe the circumstances in which you hear major differences (output levels, file types, song etc.) I will try to duplicate it when mine comes in. Note that my expectation bias is that I will not hear a difference...so that effects things

I see Lavaudio has 3 versions of the DS600 Windows Driver to download. I do not think that would effect things, but it might. BTW - YmooDirect is a 1Mii authorized distributor and sells exclusively 1Mii/Lavaudio products. I am sure 1Mii and YmooDirect know what they are selling.

 

[alexis]

DS600 Issues (first version)

I continue to have issues with USB and Optical input.

USB: The USB in my Windows 10 was not stable. It will be no sound after a while and I have to reset the device. I reset the driver but it doesn't help. I emailed the company and they said it might be the USB cable - I'm using the USB cable the company provides. D90 works fine (D90 has issue with bluetooth not adjusting volume from android devices, good for iPhone).

Optical Input: I decided not to use DS600 with my Samsung TV's optical output. Currently I have the optical output connect to a Shrewood receiver and it works fine. When I use the DS600 optical, it has the sound of menu switching but no sound from program like YouTube and Amazon Prime (or any program). I checked the setting, it is set to Optical showing PCM, and it is not muted (Menu switch has sound). So I use the Bluetooth from Samsung TV to DS600 and it works. Is there any firmware or setting I need to set for Optical input to work? The Shrewood is a 10 years old receiver. Samsung TV is 3 years old. I cannot imagine optical not working.

 

[GGroch]

Alexis....This is not good. It sounds very frustrating.

The TV optical issue first. The symptoms...clicking but no program sound, works great on an old surround receiver, sure sound like the TV's optical out is sending a Dolby Digital signal instead of PCM. It sounds like you checked that, but some TVs are finicky and a few cannot output optical PCM at all. The best test would be to briefly hook the D90 to the TV using the same optical cable. The D90 will not output Dolby Digital either, so if you get nothing with the D90 then either the TV setting is wrong (Optical out must output exclusively PCM) or your Optical cable is bad. If you tried this already it does sound like a fault with the DS600.

Is there a way you could test the DS600 USB using a different USB cable and a different computer. I just got a DS600v1.2 in, and both it and the 1.1 work perfectly using TUSB driver version 2.4 (the latest posted by 1mii...but it has been posted quite a while) and using the default Safe and 2048 samples settings. I have not used Foobar or DSD files. My Windows Advanced Speaker Properties is set to 32bit/48000 Hz. If you have an older computer and ask it to greatly oversample that could be an issue. On the other hand, the DS600 should would perfectly and reliably all the time on a standard Windows Laptop etc. without drivers. At least testing on a 2nd computer would tell you if the DS600 is certainly at fault.

Good luck! I hope you purchased it in a way that repair will not take to long if it does prove defective...but with these small Chinese brands there is often little easy support outside of China. No question Topping/SMSL etc. have more robust multinational support.

 

[alexis]

Alexis....This is not good. It sounds very frustrating.

The TV optical issue first. The symptoms...clicking but no program sound, works great on an old surround receiver, sure sound like the TV's optical out is sending a Dolby Digital signal instead of PCM. It sounds like you checked that, but some TVs are finicky and a few cannot output optical PCM at all. The best test would be to briefly hook the D90 to the TV using the same optical cable. The D90 will not output Dolby Digital either, so if you get nothing with the D90 then either the TV setting is wrong (Optical out must output exclusively PCM) or your Optical cable is bad. If you tried this already it does sound like a fault with the DS600.

Is there a way you could test the DS600 USB using a different USB cable and a different computer. I just got a DS600v1.2 in, and both it and the 1.1 work perfectly using TUSB driver version 2.4 (the latest posted by 1mii...but it has been posted quite a while) and using the default Safe and 2048 samples settings. I have not used Foobar or DSD files. My Windows Advanced Speaker Properties is set to 32bit/48000 Hz. If you have an older computer and ask it to greatly oversample that could be an issue. On the other hand, the DS600 should would perfectly and reliably all the time on a standard Windows Laptop etc. without drivers. At least testing on a 2nd computer would tell you if the DS600 is certainly at fault.

Good luck! I hope you purchased it in a way that repair will not take to long if it does prove defective...but with these small Chinese brands there is often little easy support outside of China. No question Topping/SMSL etc. have more robust multinational support.

Just tried the TV - it is set to Dolby. Switched to PCM and now it works! Thanks!!!

 

[NJC]

The D50s does sound much, much different when compared with the LS-600 v1.2..

How would you describe the difference? I have the version 1.1 now which I preferred over a Topping E30. I did prefer a Loxjie E30 for being smoother (less glare/sibilance) but it couldn't hold an optical cord securely.

While I've become accustomed to it, I like the sound of my Marantz CD6006 better for some music, the dac for other, but I use the dac for everything as it can play HDCDs and SACDs. I am trying to decide if moving up the chain would be worth it such as Topping D30 pro, a Topping D70s (which I did have in my system and was the best, a bit thicker, richer with less glare, but $$$) or just blow the budget and go for a Gustard X26 pro. Amps, speakers and source players can last many years, even decades, but dacs?.

A dac is likely going to be the most replaceable unit in a system so my hesitancy for spending too much, but a D30 pro or D70s if it were to go on sale seem more reasonable. If a dac does break, how likely would anyone spend $$$ to fix it? Probably not very. They could last but they come out with new and improved every 1 to 2 years, so at some point you would probably upgrade especially when new operating systems come to market.

Then there's system matching. I have a good mid tier system that I'm thinking of selling the expensive gear. Given my listening tastes, my amp is overkill and I want smaller speakers. So, how many of us fit this camp?

BTW, While switching between the DS600 and the D70s, while one could argue differences were subtle, with sibilance still coming thru on the D70s, it just "felt" right, felt better, smoother, more natural by a bit if that makes any sense. No fatigue, no noticing any brightness whatsoever. So while these dacs can sound similar to many people, there's another quality that comes across as smoother, easy to listen to while still sounding very musical and with detail. Maybe just a slight difference makes a large difference in how people listen to their music? Can't explain it any other way.

With a d30pro, which is all I need (don't use BT/MQA), while not as dynamic as the D70s, it may be close enough for my mid tier (or budget, depending on one's view) Keces E40 ($600 retail) and Triangle Zetas ($500 retail) given I listen at low to moderate volumes. So...maybe I answered my own question.

The other amp retailed for over 3K and the larger speakers nearly 2K so...being happy with the Keces on any speaker I tried so far says alot. It beats many an amp under a grand btw...and it's small.

Anyone who can compare the D600/d50s to a D30 Pro as well as to a D70s would be welcome for their thoughts. Probably the reviews are fairly accurate but the equipment they use may show even more discrepancies than my limited system

 

[eswaroop]

One quick update - I have a DS600 ( both v1.1 and V1.2), a topping D50S, a Topping D70 and briefly had a topping D90SE and I have to say I keep going back to the DS600 v1.1 version - one thing I noticed and I am not sure what Amir used for testing but the DAC sounds totally different depending on what power supply you use - I ended up getting the topping power supply P50 and it made a huge diff in the upper high frequency range ( I am only going off listening assessment of course ) - this DAC is by far the most neutral and realistic sounding ( I run it on mode 3 ) for my ears at least

 

[Tonywood]

Found this on Amazon, Version 1.3 - This adds two buf634a for the Headphone amp, looks to be configured as a composite amp, so it should measure pretty good. I would change the the JRC5532 op amp to a OPA1612 or OPA1656 and upgrade the USB charger for it, not sure it would measure better?

 

[Doodski]

I would change the the JRC5532 op amp to a OPA1612 or OPA1656 and upgrade the USB charger for it, not sure it would measure better?

The OP amp changes are as likely to cause a issue as they are to not cause a improvement. The USB power supply is another MOD that will not effect a sound improvement because the PCB has power supply circuitry on it that smooths out any unwanted stuff. See the LDOs with peripheral smoothing caps and the anti interference power supply

 

[Tonywood]

The OP amp changes are as likely to cause a issue as they are to not cause a improvement. The USB power supply is another MOD that will not effect a sound improvement because the PCB has power supply circuitry on it that smooths out any unwanted stuff. See the LDOs with peripheral smoothing caps and the anti interference power supply

Agreed, it's just that I have the opa1612 and a better USB charger. I'll make sure the opa1612 does not oscillate. Once I get the unit, I'll try to measure it to see if either make a difference. Some past experiments I got a higher SNR with a higher voltage USB charger - 5v to 5.3v. It could be the 5v charger I used was bad. I did not measure the noise or ripple on it. Notice it only output 4.65v at load though.

 

[Doodski]

Agreed, it's just that I have the opa1612 and a better USB charger. I'll make sure the opa1612 does not oscillate. Once I get the unit, I'll try to measure it to see if either make a difference. Some past experiments I got a higher SNR with a higher voltage USB charger - 5v to 5.3v. It could be the 5v charger I used was bad. I did not measure the noise or ripple on it. Notice it only output 4.65v at load though.

Well if you already have the gear then might as well use it and experiment.

 

[eswaroop]

The OP amp changes are as likely to cause a issue as they are to not cause a improvement. The USB power supply is another MOD that will not effect a sound improvement because the PCB has power supply circuitry on it that smooths out any unwanted stuff. See the LDOs with peripheral smoothing caps and the anti interference power supply

That’s what I was thinking as well regarding the USB power supply but I see a noticeable difference in fatigue free hearing when I use a better PSU - I don’t have the equipment to measure any diff - just my ears

 

[Doodski]

That’s what I was thinking as well regarding the USB power supply but I see a noticeable difference in fatigue free hearing when I use a better PSU - I don’t have the equipment to measure any diff - just my ears

The onboard PCB power supply circuitry is designed to support all those digital waveforms with rising and falling square edges. The nature of digital circuitry requires very good power supply regulation from the onboard power supply stuff. That's why they use the onboard power supply circuitry for regulation as well they often require positive and negative voltages and so they use DC to DC converters or pulse width modulation (PWM) power supplies if we use the more formal term. The PWM power supplies again filter out all sorts of unwanted stuff and the voltage regulators of which I see two provide veryyyy smooth clean power. The USB power supply swap will provide voltage and current but it won't improve the PWM circuitry or the 2 regulators output because they are designed to not be affected by a slight increase or decrease in the USB supply voltage and likewise for any parasitic or weird distortion from the USB power supply. If you hear smoother sound that is less fatiguing that's great but I doubt the USB supply or the OP amp rolling is the root of the improvement.

 

[eswaroop]

I am there with you by theory - the thing is I did not notice the improvement by hooking up a cleaner supply to do so in the first place - so there was no bias on my end - it turned out that I during initial setup I used an USB power supply from an old chromecast by accident, and the DAC sounded good when I started out - I switched to the supplied usb power supply during some testing later on and the sound changed - I spent weeks trying to figure out what had changed without luck as the sound was not as smooth and musical as before - after swapping every other possible setting and component I disbelievingly swapped the last component - the usb supply and lo - voila - the sound was back - I tried a few other USB supplies including an apple supply to no luck - the only other one that did the same was the P50 supply from topping. Try and see if you have time and the means - maybe surprised - also it may be that the cheaper supply is messing with my amp somehow vs the DAC itself.. though it would show up in the output signal then..

 

[Doodski]

I am there with you by theory - the thing is I did not notice the improvement by hooking up a cleaner supply to do so in the first place - so there was no bias on my end - it turned out that I during initial setup I used an USB power supply from an old chromecast by accident, and the DAC sounded good when I started out - I switched to the supplied usb power supply during some testing later on and the sound changed - I spent weeks trying to figure out what had changed without luck as the sound was not as smooth and musical as before - after swapping every other possible setting and component I disbelievingly swapped the last component - the usb supply and lo - voila - the sound was back - I tried a few other USB supplies including an apple supply to no luck - the only other one that did the same was the P50 supply from topping. Try and see if you have time and the means - maybe surprised - also it may be that the cheaper supply is messing with my amp somehow vs the DAC itself.. though it would show up in the output signal then..

Are you using the double blind test method to see if changes are real and not imaginary?

 

[Veri]

Found this on Amazon, Version 1.3 - This adds two buf634a for the Headphone amp, looks to be configured as a composite amp, so it should measure pretty good. I would change the the JRC5532 op amp to a OPA1612 or OPA1656 and upgrade the USB charger for it, not sure it would measure better?

Those amps are soldered on though, seems a PITA to put new ones on

 

[eswaroop]

Are you using the double blind test method to see if changes are real and not imaginary?

I thought That’s what it ended up being effectively isn’t it ( during the swap out part ) - not during the swap back in part though.. How do we do that here - blind test can be done but how to do a double blind ?

 

[Doodski]

I thought That’s what it ended up being effectively isn’t it ( during the swap out part ) - not during the swap back in part though.. How do we do that here - blind test can be done but how to do a double blind ?

Yes, now that you mention it a first hand double blind test is kind of tough to do. Can you record the DAC output and then record it again after the moods and then listen to the two tracks and see if there is a difference? That's about the only way to do this.

 

[Kollin]

I was pleasantly surprised that the default DAC filter was the correct one as it is not 99% of the time:

And what was the default filter for this DAC?