Large Wide Yoga Studio Room Advice

[roscoepan]

I just purchased a yoga studio and the main room needs a major sound upgrade from a lone Bose Soundtouch. The dimensions of the room are 24'x60' 1,466sqft, 14,660 cuft. The whole floor is textured mats with one wall (teachers wall) all mirrors. Dropped ceiling. The teachers typically teach along one long wall with the students spread out versus the teacher being at the long end of the room.

Since I just purchased the business I want to keep costs to a minimum. I figure the main investment and design the whole system starts around the amp. Which is my main question for this forum. The little research I found led me to the Yamaha RX596 (or RX V596). Which begs the question how is the sound going to function in the room, music of surround the the RX596 only being 2 channels. My ultimate goal is to have the audio in the room as immersive as possible. I'm looking at including Spatial in time to allow for designed 3D audio.

Speakers seem easier in some respects than an amp to replace, but I'm open to opinions if that is backwards. If I do this build in phases Phase 1 is getting a clean powerful enough amp and a surround configuration of speakers, likely in ceiling. Phase 2 would be adding speakers if need be, adding a sub, and if more power is needed a second amp.

In case it matters the audio input will be a line in from a bluetooth receiver mostly. If we get audio made for special events I'd try to get the files in DSD.

What are your thoughts for Amps?

Thanks

 

[stevenswall]

No thought for amps as I like active speakers.

Get something coaxial so you can stand and bend and sit and lay and not have the sound be off.

Edit: I do yoga in a much smaller room, with only one or two other people max and appreciate the sound not changing. Ceiling speakers seem to help with this somewhat vs larger speakers on the wall when I go to large classes.

 

[BlackTalon]

I'm curious how you will be using the music, and when. I am used to hearing at in the beginning as people are getting set up, and at the end where everyone does the corpse thing. And usually it is not very loud. I've tried to up my wife's game from a iPhone plugged into a $20 table top speaker to a Bluesound Node, Hypex amp and so speakers that are dubious with respect to sound quality (Zu Dirty Weekend -- they look great and do a decent job visually disappearing). Her studio in our basement is close to 900 sf, but ceiling is a bit lower than yours. High fidelity wasn't a huge consideration when I was setting it up because it isn't exactly an acoustically treated room; its a wood floor though, with limited rugs and not many mats (Covid -- her in-studio classes right now are limited to a handful of privates and one group of 5 people). Ceiling speakers are a decent concept, and the # of them you use will dictate the amp you need. 8 channels? 16 channels? etc...

I can't imagine having a subwoofer pump out low bass in the middle of a yoga class. Possibly if the space is used for high-energy exercise classes, but even then I don't think the typical Rumba (sp?) participant is looking for the ground to be rumbling underneath. And hi-rez digital will likely be lost on all of the student. Unless, of course, you are holding classes for the local audiophile chapter

If you can provide some info on how the system will be used that will help guide suggestions.

 

[EdTice]

I just purchased a yoga studio and the main room needs a major sound upgrade from a lone Bose Soundtouch. The dimensions of the room are 24'x60' 1,466sqft, 14,660 cuft. The whole floor is textured mats with one wall (teachers wall) all mirrors. Dropped ceiling. The teachers typically teach along one long wall with the students spread out versus the teacher being at the long end of the room.

Since I just purchased the business I want to keep costs to a minimum. I figure the main investment and design the whole system starts around the amp. Which is my main question for this forum. The little research I found led me to the Yamaha RX596 (or RX V596). Which begs the question how is the sound going to function in the room, music of surround the the RX596 only being 2 channels. My ultimate goal is to have the audio in the room as immersive as possible. I'm looking at including Spatial in time to allow for designed 3D audio.

Speakers seem easier in some respects than an amp to replace, but I'm open to opinions if that is backwards. If I do this build in phases Phase 1 is getting a clean powerful enough amp and a surround configuration of speakers, likely in ceiling. Phase 2 would be adding speakers if need be, adding a sub, and if more power is needed a second amp.

In case it matters the audio input will be a line in from a bluetooth receiver mostly. If we get audio made for special events I'd try to get the files in DSD.

What are your thoughts for Amps?

Thanks

I wouldn't go with AVR and/or HiFi speakers for this setup. This is what pro-audio is for. And you will get better results for cheaper. If the room is wide and shallow (like your), two pro-audio speakers (Behringer EuroLive B212D can be had for under $300/pair used $500/par new) are put in the very front corners and toed-in so that you get good coverage (albeit poor stereo separation). For narrow and deep rooms of that size, four to six in-ceiling speakers would be used.

You will be very unhappy with HiFi speakers in room like that as reflections will tend to make speech unintelligible [edit: I originally wrote inaudible which is clearly wrog]. Don't reinvent the wheel here. Go with the tried and true and focus on teaching yoga. Not related to audio, consider adding squats and deadlifts!

 

[EdTice]

I just purchased a yoga studio and the main room needs a major sound upgrade from a lone Bose Soundtouch. The dimensions of the room are 24'x60' 1,466sqft, 14,660 cuft. The whole floor is textured mats with one wall (teachers wall) all mirrors. Dropped ceiling. The teachers typically teach along one long wall with the students spread out versus the teacher being at the long end of the room.

Since I just purchased the business I want to keep costs to a minimum. I figure the main investment and design the whole system starts around the amp. Which is my main question for this forum. The little research I found led me to the Yamaha RX596 (or RX V596). Which begs the question how is the sound going to function in the room, music of surround the the RX596 only being 2 channels. My ultimate goal is to have the audio in the room as immersive as possible. I'm looking at including Spatial in time to allow for designed 3D audio.

Speakers seem easier in some respects than an amp to replace, but I'm open to opinions if that is backwards. If I do this build in phases Phase 1 is getting a clean powerful enough amp and a surround configuration of speakers, likely in ceiling. Phase 2 would be adding speakers if need be, adding a sub, and if more power is needed a second amp.

In case it matters the audio input will be a line in from a bluetooth receiver mostly. If we get audio made for special events I'd try to get the files in DSD.

What are your thoughts for Amps?

Thanks

@roscoepan Are you unhappy with our answers or just too busy teaching yoga?

Also stay away from the RX596 for pro-audio applications like this one. The RX-596 is great (I own two of them) as a HiFi amplifier. But you don't want amplifier reliability as a distraction. You can get the Behringer A800 new for under $250. You are always better of adding speakers than amplifiers. But I doubt you will need either one.

There are many things you haven't told us about the setup. Are teachers going to be brining their own music for non-special events? If everybody brings their own phone and 3.5mm adapter, you will have to worry about gain structure. You'll want a simple two-channel mixer (don't get one with automatic gain control) and the amplifier put away in a separate room (so nobody will touch it!). The mixer will need to be able to accommodate consumer-level signals. You should probably supply the mic and body packs yourself as to limit what might come in the door!

 

[Matthias McCready]

I would also recommend PA speakers or ceiling speakers for this size of room, specifically you will want a "commercial product," rather than a home-audio one. This does not mean that it has to sound worse; it just means that the system will be more capable, and significantly more forgiving when someone who is not you decides to mess with things.

---

With multiple ceiling speakers, even with good ones unless they are quite directional they may not feel as "3D" as a stereo pair of larger speakers; however they would give the advantage of a more even SPL response across the room. This is not a bad solution, just a trade-off to be aware of.

For this propose you would be looking for a commercial rack-mountable power-amp for a 70V system (QSC, Crown etc).

The best ceiling speakers I have found for the price is the Martin C series (under $100 each). Although Tannoy makes some nice coaxial stuff as well.

---
If you go the PA speaker route it is better to have one good sounding speaker in mono, than two poor speakers in stereo. Avoid the cheap stuff (JBl Eon, Behringer, Harbinger etc), as they do not have fidelity to begin with.

---

What is your budget?
What SPL (A weighted) are you trying to hit? (think of your biggest event)

----

Without knowing your budget perhaps some used QSC-K or JBL SRX 812P's Or Martin CDD could be a good move. Martin in particular has an interesting coaxial pattern control with this line that allows for more even dispersion and levels; they are fantastic in a smaller environment. Pretty cool boxes!

---

It may be worth bringing in a small install company to install the speakers and a wall panel to provide a user interface for QSYS, AHM, or Zilica etc. Basically a touch panel with a volume control, or a simple user interface. This keeps things friendly for users, while locking away the complex stuff (ie "the system doesn't work, because someone felt 'creative' and found a mute button somewhere.")

 

[krabapple]

Um.. I think more attention should be paid to the potentially awful acoustics of such a space? Some reverberation control might be in order.

 

[EdTice]

I would also recommend PA speakers or ceiling speakers for this size of room, specifically you will want a "commercial product," rather than a home-audio one. This does not mean that it has to sound worse; it just means that the system will be more capable, and significantly more forgiving when someone who is not you decides to mess with things.

---

With multiple ceiling speakers, even with good ones unless they are quite directional they may not feel as "3D" as a stereo pair of larger speakers; however they would give the advantage of a more even SPL response across the room. This is not a bad solution, just a trade-off to be aware of.

For this propose you would be looking for a commercial rack-mountable power-amp for a 70V system (QSC, Crown etc).

The best ceiling speakers I have found for the price is the Martin C series (under $100 each). Although Tannoy makes some nice coaxial stuff as well.

---
If you go the PA speaker route it is better to have one good sounding speaker in mono, than two poor speakers in stereo. Avoid the cheap stuff (JBl Eon, Behringer, Harbinger etc), as they do not have fidelity to begin with.

---

What is your budget?
What SPL (A weighted) are you trying to hit? (think of your biggest event)

----

Without knowing your budget perhaps some used QSC-K or JBL SRX 812P's Or Martin CDD could be a good move. Martin in particular has an interesting coaxial pattern control with this line that allows for more even dispersion and levels; they are fantastic in a smaller environment. Pretty cool boxes!

---

It may be worth bringing in a small install company to install the speakers and a wall panel to provide a user interface for QSYS, AHM, or Zilica etc. Basically a touch panel with a volume control, or a simple user interface. This keeps things friendly for users, while locking away the complex stuff (ie "the system doesn't work, because someone felt 'creative' and found a mute button somewhere.")

The big advantage of PA speakers in Yoga/Group Exercise rooms is that they are more directional than HiFi speakers meaning that the sound "spreads out" less. Those spaces tend to be fairly echoic compared to a typical home audio listening situation. For HiFi we want good "off axis response" (that is you don't have to be right in front of the speaker to hear it well). In a room that is somewhat echoic, any sound that reflects off of the wall/floor/ceiling once will reflect multiple times. This will produce a muddy sound. Ever been to a high school gymnasium or a roller skating rink where you can't understand somebody speaking? Now you know why!

Larger diameter (12" ideally) PA speakers will keep the sound "focused" so that you are only hearing direct sound. Here's a good tutorial from PreSonus that covers the ideas (but the difference between HiFi/PA speakers)

How to Configure Your PA System | PreSonus

www.presonus.com

Everybody learns this either the easy or hard way. But this is why wide group exercise/yoga rooms are always setup the same way with the PA speakers pointing toward the middle. If you do it any other way, music can be tolerable but speech is nearly unintelligible.

Most music is initially mixed using nearfields (which sound very similar to PA speakers) and then double-checked to make sure it will sound good on HiFi speakers. The two will sound different (especially if subwoofers aren't used) but both will sound good if the music is mixed tolerably.

In order to get a room of those characteristics to sound well with HiFi equipment, significant acoustic treatment will probably be needed.

PA equipment also has better protection for when people do dumb things like drop the microphone. But it's mostly because of the characteristics of rooms that size that we need to use much different speaker types.

If the room is long, there has to be different compromises in order to be able to hear in the back without deafening the folks in the front. But for the setup described, it's two large PA speakers shoved into the corners.

The rest of the ideas in this post are fabulous and should be embraced.

 

[EdTice]

Um.. I think some attention should be paid to the potentially awful acoustics of such a space? Some reverberation control might be in order.

This is why I keep pushing for directional PA speakers. Also keep in mind that, when the class fills with people (which hopefully it will), that will have a reverberation control mechanism. Of course you can also install acoustic treatments sometimes. I wish we know more about the room. Most have one-way glass in the rear which means that if you don't use very directional speakers toed-in so that the sound meets well in front of the back wall, you get an unpleasant mess.

 

[JayGilb]

Maybe hanging directional speakers in a few key locations, so people who don't want to hear music can locate somewhere not directly below a speaker.

 

[EdTice]

Maybe hanging directional speakers in a few key locations, so people who don't want to hear music can locate somewhere not directly below a speaker.

But then they also won't be able to hear the instructor tell them that it's time to go from downward dog to warrior one position and they'll be in downward dog for 45 minutes or until blood pools in their head and eyes and their brain explodes. And many people in the class will find hearing the music better than being sprayed with blood!

 

[roscoepan]

No thought for amps as I like active speakers.

Get something coaxial so you can stand and bend and sit and lay and not have the sound be off.

Edit: I do yoga in a much smaller room, with only one or two other people max and appreciate the sound not changing. Ceiling speakers seem to help with this somewhat vs larger speakers on the wall when I go to large classes.

That makes sense about the coaxial speakers. It will be a challenge to get the sound equal for all, but it won't be easily accomplished I don't think.

 

[roscoepan]

I'm curious how you will be using the music, and when. I am used to hearing at in the beginning as people are getting set up, and at the end where everyone does the corpse thing. And usually it is not very loud. I've tried to up my wife's game from a iPhone plugged into a $20 table top speaker to a Bluesound Node, Hypex amp and so speakers that are dubious with respect to sound quality (Zu Dirty Weekend -- they look great and do a decent job visually disappearing). Her studio in our basement is close to 900 sf, but ceiling is a bit lower than yours. High fidelity wasn't a huge consideration when I was setting it up because it isn't exactly an acoustically treated room; its a wood floor though, with limited rugs and not many mats (Covid -- her in-studio classes right now are limited to a handful of privates and one group of 5 people). Ceiling speakers are a decent concept, and the # of them you use will dictate the amp you need. 8 channels? 16 channels? etc...

I can't imagine having a subwoofer pump out low bass in the middle of a yoga class. Possibly if the space is used for high-energy exercise classes, but even then I don't think the typical Rumba (sp?) participant is looking for the ground to be rumbling underneath. And hi-rez digital will likely be lost on all of the student. Unless, of course, you are holding classes for the local audiophile chapter

If you can provide some info on how the system will be used that will help guide suggestions.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts BlackTalon.

You're correct not every type of class will have the same requirements. On the more demanding end we have two teachers that do raise the volume and it's a very energetic class. In fact I think we might have themed music classes like Dave Mathews, 90's, 80's etc. On the lower demanding end with subtle water running or a recording of bowls for a more relaxed experience I would still like to deliver an even immersive quality.

Overall the main use is for specific workshops, meditations, and events where we can utilize 3d audio. There is one artist that does wonderful musics with many elements and depth that would be perfect for a 3d space. There are other elements that can create a warm space to transform students experience, but I'm looking at the audio set up being key.

Since I wrote this, I don't think I need to use Spatial's product and just use Dolby Atmos. I have access to designing and editing audio in the video edition software I use. I think I have more creative control using Atmos and it gives me a clear blue print for 3d immersive audio.

 

[roscoepan]

I wouldn't go with AVR and/or HiFi speakers for this setup. This is what pro-audio is for. And you will get better results for cheaper. If the room is wide and shallow (like your), two pro-audio speakers (Behringer EuroLive B212D can be had for under $300/pair used $500/par new) are put in the very front corners and toed-in so that you get good coverage (albeit poor stereo separation). For narrow and deep rooms of that size, four to six in-ceiling speakers would be used.

You will be very unhappy with HiFi speakers in room like that as reflections will tend to make speech unintelligible [edit: I originally wrote inaudible which is clearly wrog]. Don't reinvent the wheel here. Go with the tried and true and focus on teaching yoga. Not related to audio, consider adding squats and deadlifts!

I was considering a pair of BOSE loud speakers but they were too big for the space.

The other challenge, I don't remember if I mentioned before is this is our hot room (up to 100 at the ceiling level) so active speakers I would think might not perform better over active.

 

[roscoepan]

@roscoepan Are you unhappy with our answers or just too busy teaching yoga?

Also stay away from the RX596 for pro-audio applications like this one. The RX-596 is great (I own two of them) as a HiFi amplifier. But you don't want amplifier reliability as a distraction. You can get the Behringer A800 new for under $250. You are always better of adding speakers than amplifiers. But I doubt you will need either one.

There are many things you haven't told us about the setup. Are teachers going to be brining their own music for non-special events? If everybody brings their own phone and 3.5mm adapter, you will have to worry about gain structure. You'll want a simple two-channel mixer (don't get one with automatic gain control) and the amplifier put away in a separate room (so nobody will touch it!). The mixer will need to be able to accommodate consumer-level signals. You should probably supply the mic and body packs yourself as to limit what might come in the door!

Hi EdTice LOL my apologies for the delay I wasn't getting the notifications about the responses.

I'm familiar with the gain structure and will find what will work. For most regular use I'll have a bluetooth input into a mixer along with the mic into the mixer as well. Everyone connects using iPhone for classes. So if I'm reading in-between your questions, ideally I'll be using balanced out.

You bring up a good point though...Lets pretend that more music is getting converted to Atmos and is capable during streaming then maybe an Atmos integrated amp makes sense to connect into. Maybe I could have a seperate system for speakers for the wireless mic and not need a mixer to combine voice and music.

These are all great questions to help me think through the different uses.

 

[EdTice]

That makes sense about the coaxial speakers. It will be a challenge to get the sound equal for all, but it won't be easily accomplished I don't think.

How tall is the room? If the ceilings are only eight feet it can be hard because you will notice the change in woofer/tweeter distance as you go from lying to standing positions. If the room is higher (10ft+) you can use a two way speaker as long as you hang it as high as possible. Getting the sound to equal out won't be as hard as you think. I've been in plenty of group ex rooms that size with very simple audio systems that work great.

 

[roscoepan]

I would also recommend PA speakers or ceiling speakers for this size of room, specifically you will want a "commercial product," rather than a home-audio one. This does not mean that it has to sound worse; it just means that the system will be more capable, and significantly more forgiving when someone who is not you decides to mess with things.

---

With multiple ceiling speakers, even with good ones unless they are quite directional they may not feel as "3D" as a stereo pair of larger speakers; however they would give the advantage of a more even SPL response across the room. This is not a bad solution, just a trade-off to be aware of.

For this propose you would be looking for a commercial rack-mountable power-amp for a 70V system (QSC, Crown etc).

The best ceiling speakers I have found for the price is the Martin C series (under $100 each). Although Tannoy makes some nice coaxial stuff as well.

---
If you go the PA speaker route it is better to have one good sounding speaker in mono, than two poor speakers in stereo. Avoid the cheap stuff (JBl Eon, Behringer, Harbinger etc), as they do not have fidelity to begin with.

---

What is your budget?
What SPL (A weighted) are you trying to hit? (think of your biggest event)

----

Without knowing your budget perhaps some used QSC-K or JBL SRX 812P's Or Martin CDD could be a good move. Martin in particular has an interesting coaxial pattern control with this line that allows for more even dispersion and levels; they are fantastic in a smaller environment. Pretty cool boxes!

---

It may be worth bringing in a small install company to install the speakers and a wall panel to provide a user interface for QSYS, AHM, or Zilica etc. Basically a touch panel with a volume control, or a simple user interface. This keeps things friendly for users, while locking away the complex stuff (ie "the system doesn't work, because someone felt 'creative' and found a mute button somewhere.")

SPL? Not sure. I tested a pair of Bose F1 and they sounded great at very low volume and low output on the mixer but they were too directional even laying on their side in a C pattern (top and bottom spread out for a wider dispersion.

For a 70v, will the PA override the music completely or can I adjust the mic level and the music level.

I am not opposed to all ceiling speakers and I think that is my default, screw it just get something in there.

Budget right now is $4,000 with me doing most of the work. In time I am open to a $10K system.

I know what poor sound really detracts from the experience in other locations my wife has taught at and I know we can do better.

 

[roscoepan]

How tall is the room? If the ceilings are only eight feet it can be hard because you will notice the change in woofer/tweeter distance as you go from lying to standing positions. If the room is higher (10ft+) you can use a two way speaker as long as you hang it as high as possible. Getting the sound to equal out won't be as hard as you think. I've been in plenty of group ex rooms that size with very simple audio systems that work great.

The room is 10-10.5'.

Padded floors so the acoustics aren't too bad. I can make sound panels at the right locations to improve things as well.

 

[roscoepan]

This is why I keep pushing for directional PA speakers. Also keep in mind that, when the class fills with people (which hopefully it will), that will have a reverberation control mechanism. Of course you can also install acoustic treatments sometimes. I wish we know more about the room. Most have one-way glass in the rear which means that if you don't use very directional speakers toed-in so that the sound meets well in front of the back wall, you get an unpleasant mess.

The one change to the room is that the floor is covered in a 5/8" mat which does a decent job dampening the sound. I can make sound panels all day long as needed.

 

[roscoepan]

But then they also won't be able to hear the instructor tell them that it's time to go from downward dog to warrior one position and they'll be in downward dog for 45 minutes or until blood pools in their head and eyes and their brain explodes. And many people in the class will find hearing the music better than being sprayed with blood!

LOL