Large versus small drivers

[Purité Audio]

The large versus multiple smaller driver debate, historical precedent aside are there any reasons why a large driver might have any sonic benefits over multiple smaller drivers.
Surface area, excursion, displacement, polar response , wife acceptance factor?
In a design with no physical or cost constraints what is the optimum solution.
Keith

 

[Fluffy]

If you have no physical or cost constraints, you can just pay the artist to perform in your house. In other words, there must be some constraints to have a meaningful debate.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have repeatedly called Jimmy ( Hendrix) but he doesn’t pick up.
I am thinking that the Beolab 90 is more or less designed without cost considerations, or was it?
Keith

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I am thinking that the Beolab 90 is more or less designed without cost considerations, or was it?
Keith

So I was told.

 

[Purité Audio]

It is just that I constantly read of the ‘ease’ of a large driver, how they ‘couple’ to the air differently ( ! )
I have had large horns with 15” drivers ( that didn’t produce much bass at all) multipl 6’5 drivers in the Kii BXT, multiple 9” drivers in the Hedd Main Towers.
The best bass I have heard was the 8Cs in a purpose built studio, just looking for the science rather than the often repeated anecdote.

Keith

 

[Ron Texas]

Large drivers can play louder, have more dynamic range and less distortion at high volume. That's according to some posts I have seen around here by those who I consider to be experts or are quoting experts. Think JBL M2.

 

[andreasmaaan]

It is just that I constantly read of the ‘ease’ of a large driver, how they ‘couple’ to the air differently ( ! )
I have had large horns with 15” drivers ( that didn’t produce much bass at all) multipl 6’5 drivers in the Kii BXT, multiple 9” drivers in the Hedd Main Towers.
The best bass I have heard was the 8Cs in a purpose built studio, just looking for the science rather than the often repeated anecdote.

Keith

I presume that the bass horns you heard had a cut-off frequency too high to produce true sub-bass. Bass horns need to be very large to cut-off at or below 20Hz.

Having said that, I'm not sure I fully understood your question Are you essentially asking about a hypothetical scenario in which size/cost is no object, but in which Sd must be kept constant?

And I assume we're essentially talking about subwoofers here, right?

 

[Soniclife]

just looking for the science rather than the often repeated anecdote

I'm not sure it exists, but I hope someone posts it.

 

[sergeauckland]

I too have wondered about this.

A large driver can move a lot of air without massive excursion, which helps reduce distortion, both due to suspension non-linearity and magnetic non-linearity. However, a big cone will either be relatively floppy, so break up earlier, or if stiffer, will generally be heavier, and so less sensitive for any particular magnet size.

Lots of small drivers working together, can collectively move a lot of air, without massive excursion so as above, reduce distortion. Smaller cones can be made stiffer, so can breakup at higher frequencies which could be outside the passband. With series/parallel connection, there's no particular issue with impedance either. However, several good quality small drivers will cost more than a single large driver, although that could be offset by considerations of quantity purchased and costs of a large cabinet.

Quite apart from WAF considerations, it would then seem that lots of small cones working together are a technically better solution that one large cone. And yet, the more satisfying loudspeakers I've heard had all had big cones......


S.

 

[Ron Texas]

I too have wondered about this.

Quite apart from WAF considerations, it would then seem that lots of small cones working together are a technically better solution that one large cone. And yet, the more satisfying loudspeakers I've heard had all had big cones......
S.

The Kef R11 and larger Goldenear Triton speakers are of multiple small driver design. Which large driver speakers did you like?

 

[hardisj]

Large driver pros:
More displacement with the same excursion,
Typically lower distortion for said reason above,
Typically lower Fs,
Typically able to play/crossover lower

Small driver pros:
Physically smaller so placement is easier
Directivity (beaming point) is at a higher frequency so pairing with other drivers without a penalty in sound power is easier

 

[sergeauckland]

The Kef R11 and larger Goldenear Triton speakers are of multiple small driver design. Which large driver speakers did you like?

KEF 105.2, Lockwood Major with 15" driver, my current 801s, PMC BB6s and a variety of others using 12-15" bass units. All vintage units, pretty much.

S.

 

[gfx_1]

I only know speakers from the DIY store but the larger floor-standers went lower and played louder more effortless. The 4-way transmissionline with a 25 cm / 10 inch Davis woofer goes pretty low. Tested loud once when all the neighbours were away but the doors begin to rattle. Favorite speaker was the one with two 25cm woofers.

 

[Ericglo]

I too have wondered about this.

A large driver can move a lot of air without massive excursion, which helps reduce distortion, both due to suspension non-linearity and magnetic non-linearity. However, a big cone will either be relatively floppy, so break up earlier, or if stiffer, will generally be heavier, and so less sensitive for any particular magnet size.

Lots of small drivers working together, can collectively move a lot of air, without massive excursion so as above, reduce distortion. Smaller cones can be made stiffer, so can breakup at higher frequencies which could be outside the passband. With series/parallel connection, there's no particular issue with impedance either. However, several good quality small drivers will cost more than a single large driver, although that could be offset by considerations of quantity purchased and costs of a large cabinet.

Quite apart from WAF considerations, it would then seem that lots of small cones working together are a technically better solution that one large cone. And yet, the more satisfying loudspeakers I've heard had all had big cones......


S.

I believe the comparison that Jon Schuemann performed found that most people preferred the multi driver Revel to the JBL M2. It was a small margin between the two. IIRC Floyd went with the Revels over the JBLs, but there might have been other considerations that went into it.

The Kef R11 and larger Goldenear Triton speakers are of multiple small driver design. Which large driver speakers did you like?

I have literally never heard a good demo of the Goldenears. I consider them to be highly over rated.

 

[A800]

For the reproduction of high frequencies smaller cones are more convincing.

 

[Ron Texas]

I have literally never heard a good demo of the Goldenears. I consider them to be highly over rated.

Thank you so much. However, where in my post did I ask for a subjective opinion on Goldenear speakers? They get no love around here, so I should be afraid to even mention their name in this forum, lest I get this kind of reaction.

 

[Ericglo]

Thank you so much. However, where in my post did I ask for a subjective opinion on Goldenear speakers? They get no love around here, so I should be afraid to even mention their name in this forum, lest I get this kind of reaction.

Fair enough, but I didn't rip them to pieces.

 

[gene_stl]

My DIY system, has four JBL LE14As, on each side, in 14 cubic foot enclosures. They do stuff that I have never heard anyone elses do mainly do a very creditable simulation of an earthquake. (by setting the crossover to 0-63 Hz with steepest slopes and feeding it white or pink noise and bringing it up SLOWLY and carefully and not doing it very long) The house in question was brick with real plaster walls but the place really rattled. You mainly felt it.

And it gave a better impression than SenSurround at the movies which I hated when I saw the movie Midway. That system had a very high Q and could only make one note. It did have a multiplicity of drivers too.

Multiple smaller drivers increases the BL product available and may result in less breakup as previously observed.
They do work great on music too.

Bozak Concert Grands also used lots of (12 inch diameter) wooofers.
Stereophile archive Concert Grand Article

JBL had some very kewl models too with lots of woofer cone action going on.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

The large versus multiple smaller driver debate, historical precedent aside are there any reasons why a large driver might have any sonic benefits over multiple smaller drivers.
Surface area, excursion, displacement, polar response , wife acceptance factor?
In a design with no physical or cost constraints what is the optimum solution.
Keith

When the multiple smaller drivers have same combined Sd - membrane area - it will be the same, if excursion - how long the movement of the voice coil can be, and power handling, are similar.

Cone area affects directivity and sound field intensity. This will be approximately the same, but at higher frequencies the small-driver array can be placed and also be adjusted so the units cover different frequency ranges, and thus gives much more design flexibility.

2x 8" has almost same Sd as one 12", 4x 8" equals one 15".

Larger drivers tend to have larger excursion and higher power capacity - compared to the total capacity of the smaller. Which means one large driver often has more capacity.

But now we have newer small drivers available, with quite decent excursion and high power capacity. They were developed for use in newer PA systems, where increased use of line-arrays and smaller modular units have created a demand for such drivers. The availability of such drivers has made it possible to make very small speakers with very high output capacity - the sound of a large speaker in small physical format.

 

[Unclevanya]

In my personal experience the debate is pretty much one I've never seen tested adequately.

This question has been asked many times in many places without an adequate answer. I'm tuned in hoping this time it will be different...

2011
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...64-one-large-woofer-or-multiple-small-woofers

2001
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=967961