Large open space: How do I get sufficient sub response?

[warthor]

My home theater is in an open concept living room. One side is open to the dining room, kitchen, and laundry room. The back has stairs to the second floor, which cannot be closed off. I suspect it is about 1000 sq ft (w/ 9 ft ceilings).

My question is how to best get an even subwoofer response in this space. Do I need more subwoofers, or larger subwoofers? The reason I ask is I have a budget to stick to so I can buy a single larger subwoofer, or multiple smaller subwoofers. For example, PSA has some dual opposed 12 inch subs (sealed) for a very reasonable price.

Currently I have a klipsh 15 inch subwoofer (r-115sw). I can either integrate this sub with new ones or sell it and change entirely.

I suppose a similar question could be asked for sealed vs ported.

 

[sweetchaos]

Currently I have a klipsh 15 inch subwoofer (r-115sw)

You're in luck.
This subwoofer was measured by Wirecutter, so we have CEA-2010-A data on it.
See my post for subwoofer comparison.
You can use it to compare to other subs based on your budget.
That should give you a good idea on how well it performs, vs other subs.


Next, to understand the difference between *subs that give you a mid-range bump* (which is what you have) and actual subwoofers (which give you full frequency extension, and relatively flat) (like the Monoprice Monolith 10" THX), watch the video:

Here's monolith 10 thx (red,purple,green,red) vs the monoprice budget 10" (update: sorry, this is the ELAC SUB1010, a 10" ported-rear sub) (which is light blue):

The funny thing is that they're both 10" woofers, but of course, have different frequency response, simply due to better engineering/amplifier,etc.

Also, since you mentioned dual subs...Dual subs are good for flattening out any frequency dips/nulls that are caused by room modes.

 

[AdamG]

My home theater is in an open concept living room. One side is open to the dining room, kitchen, and laundry room. The back has stairs to the second floor, which cannot be closed off. I suspect it is about 1000 sq ft (w/ 9 ft ceilings).

My question is how to best get an even subwoofer response in this space. Do I need more subwoofers, or larger subwoofers? The reason I ask is I have a budget to stick to so I can buy a single larger subwoofer, or multiple smaller subwoofers. For example, PSA has some dual opposed 12 inch subs (sealed) for a very reasonable price.

Currently I have a klipsh 15 inch subwoofer (r-115sw). I can either integrate this sub with new ones or sell it and change entirely.

I suppose a similar question could be asked for sealed vs ported.

‘For a good recommendation on how much/many subs you may need we need to know the total Cubic Feet of the room. Include attached cubby’s, hallways and all rooms that are connected without a door. I suspect your numbers will grow. Since Bass is bidirectional or radiates in all directions the full room volume is used to determine sub needs.

 

[warthor]

You're in luck.
This subwoofer was measured by Wirecutter, so we have CEA-2010-A data on it.
See my post for subwoofer comparison.
You can use it to compare to other subs based on your budget.
That should give you a good idea on how well it performs, vs other subs.


Next, to understand the difference between *subs that give you a mid-range bump* (which is what you have) and actual subwoofers (which give you full frequency extension, and relatively flat) (like the Monoprice Monolith 10" THX), .

Thanks for your hard work on that database. That is very helpful. I did examine the Klipsch R-115SW. When I looked at it the numbers didn't look too bad (to my untrained eye). What did you mean by "mid range bump" vs actual subwoofers?

Data from your spreadsheet from wirecutter:
20 hz - 102.7
25 hz - 107.8
31.5 hz - 112.6
40 hz - 115.4
50 hz - 118.7
63 hz - 117.3

Do you mean that the response is not flat?

 

[sweetchaos]

Thanks for your hard work on that database. That is very helpful. I did examine the Klipsch R-115SW. When I looked at it the numbers didn't look too bad (to my untrained eye). What did you mean by "mid range bump" vs actual subwoofers?

Data from your spreadsheet from wirecutter:
20 hz - 102.7
25 hz - 107.8
31.5 hz - 112.6
40 hz - 115.4
50 hz - 118.7
63 hz - 117.3

Do you mean that the response is not flat?

There's a difference between what the CEA-2010-A data shows you and a measured frequency response graph shows you.

CEA-2010-A (my spreadsheet) shows you the maximum SPL level that the subwoofer can hit for a given frequency, before clipping.
Think of it as a test that pushes the limits of a subwoofer, just to find out how loud it can play, without distorting.

That's completely different from the frequency response curve that a given subwoofer will play at.
This is equivalent to the spinorama data that Amir shows you for speakers.
Erin explained it nicely in the video I linked above (at around 6min: 20sec).
You basically use the same input signal (0.5v RMS), provided via the balanced XLR connection, and Erin measures the output (SPL vs frequency) and then graphs all the data, with REW software.
NOTE: This is not a "in-room" measurement. I believe this is "semi-anecoic", which means that when you put it in your room, room gain will add to this frequency response.
The result is what you see below:

The flat-looking graphs is the Monoprice Monolith 10 THX (10" ported sub).
Whereas the light-blue is the Elac SUB1010 (10" ported sub).
See how this light-blue is just a *bump* (for a lack of a better word) in the frequency response?
That's what you're buying by choosing the a budget subwoofer.

A real subwoofer, like the Monoprice Monolith 10 THX gives you that flat frequency response that you're looking for.
So it's ABSOLUTELY worth it to get it (or similar performing subs) over a budget subwoofer (like the ELAC SUB1010 or the Klipsch for that matter).

The problem, of course, is Wirecutter only shows you the CEA-2010-A data, but not the frequency response, which is what we want.
Try to find a frequency response of the Klipsch r-115sw online (preferably semi-anechoic)(not someone's "in-room" measurements, since that would have added room gain to the frequency response).

At a certain price point, you have to just assume the subwoofers aren't playing the full frequency range (like the Monolith 10 THX frequency graph above), and they will play with a frequency response (like the Elac Sub1010).

I hope that clarifies it.

 

[Wombat]

FWIW: https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/subwoofers/specialty-subs/