Lamenting the lack of good quality budget A/V Preamplifier/Processors

[Koo]

I wish Genelec would get into consumer stuff as well and come out with a GLM that includes Dirac Live or Dirac Unison. My jaw dropped first time I heard Dirac Live over mere room correction with REW. I can't see going back to just EQ after experiencing what seems like the obvious future.

A Guide to Advanced Room Correction with REW and RePhase using Convolution filters

I am getting some complaints that this tutorial is too long so I am adding a 10-step quick guide for those of you who want to use Roon convolution filters for Dirac level speaker & room correction in both frequency and the time domain: With FDW ticked in preferences in REW, take two...

community.roonlabs.com

You can replicate the phase correction of Dirac with REW too, it's not very convenient though.

 

[Descartes]

Yes if only Denon would create a 9.4.6 processor with XLR and remove all analogue input or output and price it under $4000!

 

[Chrispy]

Yes if only Denon would create a 9.4.6 processor with XLR and remove all analogue input or output and price it under $4000!

And what sort of sales would that open up?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I run an HTPC (NUC-10i7FNH) thru the Rotel Pre/Pro (RSP-1576) to a 4K TV (LG-GX).
I had studder/tearing (video) issues when watching 4K and resolved issue by doubling up on shared memory (16GB RAM to 32GB - ouch).
I normally use mouse-friendly 'ZoomMAX' VideoPlayer [not to be confused w/that conferencing app] or '5Kplayer' on the NUC, in full "UHD" mode.
If I bypass the Rotel HDMI functionality, using only the NUC's output @3.5mm jack (or @opto from OLED) thru Rotel audio inputs, provides the least latency (lipsync).
Unfortunately, using the NUC for NetFlix streaming is pathetic compared with the LG-OLED direct 'netflix' button.
I have not investigated this problem as I think it is with NetFlix controlling/throttling bandwidth depending on what type of hardware is being fed content.

Problem is probably you are only getting SD video from the PC while the LG is doing Dolby Vision which is a 12 bit colorspace as opposed to SD's 8 bit colorspace. Visual difference is dramatic and Dolby Vision is stunning. Some NUCS will do HDR 10 which is comparable to DVision. Need to be set on Windows video settings if available.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

This is how wasteful I am currently using my good ol' Marantz SR7005 receiver: ARC in, 6 pre-outs. All else is wasting space and heating my rack.

@JohnYang1997 please help us with a Topping AV processor!

View attachment 206809

Please further explain this setup. Thanks. I too have this receiver. ARC in from what? I’m
So confused. But curious. Hahaha.

 

[Matias]

Please further explain this setup. Thanks. I too have this receiver. ARC in from what? I’m
So confused. But curious. Hahaha.

TV is my main source of both movies and music streaming. It is connected by HDMI to the ARC in of the receiver, so that the receiver gets only the digital audio from the signal. It then converts to analog and through its pre-amp outputs sends the analog channels to be amplified by an external multichannel amplifier.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

What does ARC stand for to you?
It means Advanced Room Correction or similar to me so I still don’t understand how your setup has anything to do with Room Correction. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 21114]

What does ARC stand for to you?
It means Advanced Room Correction or similar to me so I still don’t understand how your setup has anything to do with Room Correction. Thanks.

Audio Return Channel

HDMI ARC - What is eARC? Audio Return Channel

HDMI ARC Overview - Wondering what eARC is? ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI enhanced audio return channel with the difference between eARC vs ARC! HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Audio Return Channel

HDMI ARC - What is eARC? Audio Return Channel

HDMI ARC Overview - Wondering what eARC is? ✓ Click here to learn more about HDMI enhanced audio return channel with the difference between eARC vs ARC! HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

Thanks so much!!
I use an AppleTV and PC as sources so I’d never heard of this. TV is just a display.

 

[pseudoid]

Some NUCS will do HDR 10 which is comparable to DVision.

Correct! HDR10 w/i NUC10/Windows11 (or Win10@10bit):
^But NOT if the (netflix/amazon/etc.) movie is streaming directly from the NUC10i7 (300Mb/s cable ISP via Rotel pre/pro) feeding the LG OLED.
^NUC10's locally stored or local NAS-streamed 4K content (on the shared-LAN, via Rotel pre/pro) feeding the LG OLED confirms 4K/UHD input and does not attempt to up-convert to its own native/internal processing.
^If streaming (netflix/amazon/etc.) movie directly from shared-LAN connection of the LG OLED ; content confirms (WAN-streamed) input is 4K/UHD.
^If I run SAME content from SAME streamer service (netflix/amazon/etc.) directly from both *NUC and *LG at the same time: the *NUC-on-LG looks much worse than *LG-on-LG.
^Ironically, the 2-channel audio of the NUC (3.5mm) sounds better than the LG (opto) and I haven't a clue why!
^Combination of LG' eARC and my Rotel HDMI2.0 is problematic for audio but that is a whole other discussion.

Sorry for the length+repeat: But it needed to be accurately described, so as to not be taken with assumptions.

 

[RosalieTheDog]

Playing with the idea of adding a centre channel to my set-up, I am stunned with the cost that would entail if I want to keep my good stereo set-up: buying an AVR and using only a fraction of its potential, and/or buying an active speaker for centre or another power amp and centre speaker ...

At this point why not keep TV and stereo separate and go for a soundbar like the Sonos Arc, which promise immersive audio, decoding of all the cool video audio formats, dsp, ...?

 

[Roland68]

Playing with the idea of adding a centre channel to my set-up, I am stunned with the cost that would entail if I want to keep my good stereo set-up: buying an AVR and using only a fraction of its potential, and/or buying an active speaker for centre or another power amp and centre speaker ...

At this point why not keep TV and stereo separate and go for a soundbar like the Sonos Arc, which promise immersive audio, decoding of all the cool video audio formats, dsp, ...?

I've heard a number of really good soundbars, but it's a far cry from what's possible when you add AV to your stereo system.

You need an AV receiver with preamp outputs for the front speakers. Connect this to a free input of your stereo amp and adjust the level once.
Unless you absolutely need Atmos with the extra speakers, you can get a good used AV receiver from within the last 10 years for $200-500. There are good and cheap centers used for around $50 and new from $100 (e.g. Heco Victa 100 - 102).
I didn't pay $300 for these two components and added a subwoofer and surround speakers.
And no restrictions on my stereo setup.

The untapped potential of the AV receiver doesn't hurt me. The relief of the power amplifier from the front speakers provides additional power reserves on the other channels.
And an AVR designed for this purpose would tend to be more expensive, as can be seen from many AV preamps.

 

[RosalieTheDog]

I've heard a number of really good soundbars, but it's a far cry from what's possible when you add AV to your stereo system.

You need an AV receiver with preamp outputs for the front speakers. Connect this to a free input of your stereo amp and adjust the level once.
Unless you absolutely need Atmos with the extra speakers, you can get a good used AV receiver from within the last 10 years for $200-500. There are good and cheap centers used for around $50 and new from $100 (e.g. Heco Victa 100 - 102).
I didn't pay $300 for these two components and added a subwoofer and surround speakers.
And no restrictions on my stereo setup.

The untapped potential of the AV receiver doesn't hurt me. The relief of the power amplifier from the front speakers provides additional power reserves on the other channels.
And an AVR designed for this purpose would tend to be more expensive, as can be seen from many AV preamps.

Thank you for the adice. I do have a stereo power amp with XLR in only and AVRs with XLR out are rare or expensive. I did read you can convert that.

An active Center speaker / processor with HDMI in and XLR pre-out, now that'd be handy.

 

[Roland68]

Thank you for the adice. I do have a stereo power amp with XLR in only and AVRs with XLR out are rare or expensive. I did read you can convert that.

That's no problem at all, there are adapter cables, active boxes and very good DIY boards that convert RCA/Chinch to XLR. A few months ago, through this thread, I looked at the circuit diagrams of the several $1000 expensive AVRs and AV preamps with XLR, and almost all of them generate the balanced signal directly at the output or convert it to SE directly at the input. No reason to spend a lot of money on it

I use this board for RCA to XLR conversion. The used DRV134 are in my opinion the most professional solution and you only need a transformer, a small housing, 2 RCA sockets and 2 female XLR plugs. Cost about $50-$60, but with better parts than most commercially available solutions.

I've been using this board for a long time for one of Balanced power amplifiers, e.g. also the IcePower modules.
The picture shows a provisional setup to test a topping PA5 with balanced TRS input.

An active Center speaker / processor with HDMI in and XLR pre-out, now that'd be handy.

That would indeed be an interesting product, but priceless because the sales figures would be 3 digits or less. As a result, the price would be well over $1000, more likely even $2000.

 

[pseudoid]

Playing with the idea of adding a centre channel to my set-up, I am stunned with the cost that would entail if I want to keep my good stereo set-up: buying an AVR and using only a fraction of its potential, and/or buying an active speaker for centre or another power amp and centre speaker ...

At this point why not keep TV and stereo separate and go for a soundbar like the Sonos Arc, which promise immersive audio, decoding of all the cool video audio formats, dsp, ...?

I've gone down this rocky-road of attempting to integrate a center )centre( channel to my capable system... and I failed miserably.
I already had a 5-channel Pre/Pro paired to a 5-channel PowerAmp, what could possibly go wrong w/a simple $500 center-speaker addition and a pair of short cables to the amp?
ANSWER: That center sucked out the most important part of the audio spectrum... from my capable floor-standers!
TL&DR: I wasn't delivered that "promise immersive audio"... ymmv

 

[beagleman]

I like the idea of units like this, but frankly a decent AVR will do what 10 devices do.

Bass management, equalizer, room eq and set up mics and speaker distances and so many other things, not even counting a tuner and phono input and on and on.

 

[Roland68]

I've gone down this rocky-road of attempting to integrate a center )centre( channel to my capable system... and I failed miserably.
I already had a 5-channel Pre/Pro paired to a 5-channel PowerAmp, what could possibly go wrong w/a simple $500 center-speaker addition and a pair of short cables to the amp?
ANSWER: That center sucked out the most important part of the audio spectrum... from my capable floor-standers!
TL&DR: I wasn't delivered that "promise immersive audio"... ymmv

May I ask which AV-Pre you use?
With real 5-channel material, the phenomenon you describe shouldn't occur, because what is output through the center loudspeaker is specified.

 

[dlaloum]

May I ask which AV-Pre you use?
With real 5-channel material, the phenomenon you describe shouldn't occur, because what is output through the center loudspeaker is specified.

Stereo, with a really good mixer, can sound better with a center in place ...

Logic7 from Lexicon/Harman used to do an excellent job, some (but not all) implementation of Dolby PLII similarly, and I have been enjoying the results from current generation Dolby Surround as a mixer.

The result tends to provide a much wider "sweet spot" while maintaining stereo imaging and soundstage effects.

Best achieved with 3 matched speakers (at least from the lower midrange up).

The principles of using 3 speakers to reproduce 2 channel stereo, were demonstrated early in the 20th century, pretty much at the birth of stereo.

Klipsch originally released the classic Cornwall speaker as a center channel for stereo use!

 

[Vacceo]

Thanks so much!!
I use an AppleTV and PC as sources so I’d never heard of this. TV is just a display.

The great thing about ARC (and eARC) is that it allows to use your TV as an HDMI hub. Whatever you reproduce on your TV, it will send the sound to the processor/soundbar/audio system. The added feature is that you can use your TV remote for volume no matter what the source is (it has to be CEC compatible).

I´ll give you an example with the living room setup I have. I got an LG C2 OLED; to its hdmi´s I have a DVD, a cable TV decoder and a PC. From the TV´s HDMI eARC, it runs to a pair of LS50 Wireless II. I can use the TV´s remote to control the volume of the speakers that also activate (or turn off) in the moment the TV does. It´s a very convenient setup.

Aditionally, I have also connected the speakers to the DVD with an optical cable, so I can also listen to CD´s without having to turn on the TV (it saves a bit electricity).

 

[kadajawi]

https://www.nubert.de/nuxinema-preav/a040686 This might be an option. Just launched. Their room correction sadly isn't that good it seems, but it does have Atmos and corresponding speakers it can control wirelessly.