L'Acoustics available to luxury residential market through integrators

[EERecordist]

L'Acoustics is primarily a professional large scale PA vendor. Dave Rat was using their subs for bass-heavy stadium DJ setups.

If you have the money they can do homes, including waterproof outdoor surround sound. They have their own modeling software for multi-speaker system design.

Homeplay is a high end home technology integrator in London. Sure there are similar companies world wide.

Homeplay

Experience Technology ™ Transform how you live. Discover sound you can feel, home cinema that transports you to another world and lighting that brings living spaces to life.

www.homeplay.tv

L-Acoustics Concert Sound Systems

L-Acoustics sets the benchmark for the concert sound system and professional sound system innovations; redefining the future of audio.

www.l-acoustics.com

I don't have a mansion, and I'm not planning to get one, but with the right integrator, pro products can become home products.

 

[kemmler3D]

Pretty interesting actually. I heard some l'acoustics because the sound guy at a work conference I attended was pretty serious about sound quality... They were noticeably better than average even in a random large hotel conference room.

 

[MCH]

They indeed do small-ish projects. In my comune, all local auditoriums, music school stc use their stuff

 

[GXAlan]

Meyer Sound, L-Acoustics, and d&b Audiotechnik are considered the leaders in professional array sound with JBL Professional as well.

None of these PA speakers measure perfectly flat, and yet they really do sound great which is always something to put into context. We know we don’t hear a big difference between 120 dB SINAD DACs and 115 dB SINAD DACs, but what is the threshold for speaker FR flatness? The real world experience doesn’t seem to match our ability to hear subtle differences in test tones.

Like the electronics world, the most expensive products may not be the flattest or best measuring. But flat FR doesn’t take into account, IMD, compression, group delay, and it may very well turn out that these top 3 companies have a good balance of optimizations. They do invest a lot in research and measurement (no golden ears) and their R&D target is not the home environment. Just interesting.

I have sent both of the Meyer Sound speakers in for measurement here and even though they don’t measure as well as other speakers, they sound better to me. The only consistent feature is low distortion at high SPLs but I don’t listen that loud! Then dispersion is also narrower which may provide a more focused presentation and vocal clarity that I prefer than the spaciousness that others might prefer.

 

[Chr1]

I think that dispersion varies according to the product model too tho. I use passive Tannoy pro-audio V12s at home. They have relatively wide dispersion compared to some. I think perfectly flat FR is not deemed top priority as it is assumed that DSP will be used. The only reason I can see these days for needing ideal FR is if you can't use DSP for some reason. (ie vinyl).

 

[Sokel]

L-Acoustics is considered the very top in Europe leaving far behind all else for quality pro stuff.
I think it's a really small fraction that goes to an application like that, probably for prestige, marketing etc.

Nice to see it though!

 

[GXAlan]

I think perfectly flat FR is not deemed top priority as it is assumed that DSP will be used. The only reason I can see these days for needing ideal FR is if you can't use DSP for some reason. (ie vinyl).

What I mean is that even with the factory DSP they don’t aggressively make FR flat. Only logical reason would be the latency and phase shifts in my mind.

L-Acoustics is considered the very top in Europe leaving far behind all else for quality pro stuff.

https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/12p0v2x/db_or_lacoustics

You can see some of the subjectivist debates. There are descriptions like D & B sounding more like studio monitors and L-Acoustics being more “hi-fi”. I would love to to see these speakers measured at ASR.

I think the sound from L-Acoustics / d & b / Meyer Sound are top notch but they don’t seem to follow all of the Harman home philosophy. Would be nice to see these speakers measured to understand.

https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/1eovvj3/comment/lonihoa

 

[Miley_B]

I certainly would disagree about L'acoustics leaving the others far behind, it's a top tier PA cabinet manufacturer but there are others that are comparable.

@GXAlan It's pleasing to me to see there is a bit of a movement to independently document PA cabinet frequency responses, this should be of interest: https://trace-book.org/
The standard of the testing and data is varied but still useful.

A review with a member vote on these sort of speakers seems unfair as even the best would likely be mostly judged as poor due to price, frequency response and limited bandwidth.
A line array speaker would get overwhelmingly criticised for its spectral tilt up in the HF I am sure.

 

[Sokel]

I certainly would disagree about L'acoustics leaving the others far behind, it's a top tier PA cabinet manufacturer but there are others that are comparable.

@GXAlan It's pleasing to me to see there is a bit of a movement to independently document PA cabinet frequency responses, this should be of interest: https://trace-book.org/
The standard of the testing and data is varied but still useful.

A review with a member vote on these sort of speakers seems unfair as even the best would likely be mostly judged as poor due to price, frequency response and limited bandwidth.
A line array speaker would get overwhelmingly criticised for its spectral tilt up in the HF I am sure.

Here in Europe they are in terms of large scale stuff, stadiums and the shorts.
In terms of measurements, they have their own system, is called M1 and the methodology is described here:

White Papers - L-Acoustics

Impactful and easy to read scientific documents in a compact format

www.l-acoustics.com

https://www.l-acoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Measurement_stability_in_HF.pdf

They also have videos about it, one of them:

 

[GXAlan]

You can also take a look at Meyer Sound.

Both L-Acoustics *and* Meyer Sound are measured-focused science-based companies, with low sensitivity for cost (in that they play at the high end of budgets), and utilize powerful DSPs. Both companies could easily go for a ruler flat response anechoically — but they don’t. Which leads to the question, why?

Main hypotheses have been phase compromised with too much IIR, ringing artifacts with too much FIR, processing delay budget when doing live reinforcement, etc.

Is it a feature or a bug that they aren’t ruler flat?

There are also those of us who have listened to ruler flat speakers but somehow prefer premium PA speakers, even at residential SPLs.

 

[Sokel]

You can also take a look at Meyer Sound.

Both L-Acoustics *and* Meyer Sound are measured-focused science-based companies, with low sensitivity for cost (in that they play at the high end of budgets), and utilize powerful DSPs. Both companies could easily go for a ruler flat response anechoically — but they don’t. Which leads to the question, why?

Main hypotheses have been phase compromised with too much IIR, ringing artifacts with too much FIR, processing delay budget when doing live reinforcement, etc.

Is it a feature or a bug that they aren’t ruler flat?

There are also those of us who have listened to ruler flat speakers but somehow prefer premium PA speakers, even at residential SPLs.

I have listened to them at the best possible conditions, indoors too.
I know it's up to taste but I would never take them home with such a "character" with my music.

My guess is that they follow a recipe made to drawn attention to it. But to me that very recipe is what I would never want.
Again, up to taste, I have the same dislike for "showroom" sound for example.

To me it's the sound of Rockport, or Aerial Acoustics and the shorts that suits me (the ones who don't exasperated 3kHz-10kHz at least) .

 

[Miley_B]

Both companies could easily go for a ruler flat response anechoically — but they don’t.

Evidence to back up the latter part of this statement?
Focussing on small general purpose point source speakers like the L'acoustics X8 or D&B E8, I think they measure fairly flat on Axis.

I don't have a mansion, and I'm not planning to get one, but with the right integrator, pro products can become home products.

I've worked in mansions with L'acoustics installs, despite being far too miserable to find a friend to invite to the necessary party I was still jealous. I am not currently in a position to buy a mansion with or without an L'acoustics install sadly.

 

[GXAlan]

I know it's up to taste but I would never take them home with such a "character" with my music.

I am hoping that with these kinds of measurements we get from the Klippel NFS, we will understand what actual components are responsible for that character.

It’s interesting because I really enjoyed my Magnepans.

But it was the inability to reproduce that live concert sound (A Star is Born) that led me down a long path of upgrades and speaker switching until I got to my Meyer Sound.

It’s great with classical music and rock and roll.

Evidence to back up the latter part of this statement?
Focussing on small general purpose point source speakers like the L'acoustics X8 or D&B E8, I think they measure fairly flat on Axis.

Even with smoothing, X8 is preference score or 4.04

Measurements for speaker L-Acoustics X8

www.spinorama.org

D & B Q7

Measurements for speaker DB Audiotechnik Q7

www.spinorama.org

Meyer X40

Measurements for speaker Meyer Sound Ultra X40

www.spinorama.org

They are not horrible by any means, but they aren’t “ruler” flat on-axis way you *could* do with pure DSP. I sent in the MM-4XP to see if Amir’s measurements matched the GLL predicted spinorama and it was close enough to give me confidence for the other speakers.

For the record, I own the Meyer Ultra X40 which I think is incredible (but sensitive to having very quiet upstream electronics due to the high gain of the amplifier). I have Dirac Full Range which I paid extra for, but prefer the non-Dirac sound for the most part since even frequency restricted correction changes the imaging from pinpoint to spacious.

 

[Miley_B]

Even with smoothing, X8 is preference score or 4.04

The preference score isn't a metric I take much notice of TBH, more of a raw data chap myself.
With a sub the X8 is 6.85 which isn't on the level that a DSP Genelec or Neumann is but I think isn't bad. It's clearly getting marked down because of the limited LF extension. It would normally be complemented by a sub or be part of a bigger system so even the LF it has is often not required. Presumably the 10k off axis peak is going against it as well, it is shown in my saved in situ X8 measurements but should be less of an issue for PA work as generally it will only be close to one reflective surface, usually the floor.
The Q7 was a good speaker but is now over 20 years old as is the DSP that can be used with it. It can be powered by their newer DSP amps but it has to sound (near enough) the same regardless of the electronics and the original D12 amplifier is 23 ish years old.
I've not heard the X40 that I can remember but I'm sure it sounds fantastic, Meyer are always top notch.
Meyer sound deserves a lot of credit for their commitment to research and education.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

L-Acoustics PA systems are the most dominate world wide. They are the most used. When arrayed correctly, they measure very flat above 200Hz and they have powerful DSP tools to deal with the rest. But this is when we're dealing with line arrays. An individual box will not measure flat at 1 meter on axis but they are never used that way. For their smaller stuff, they measure really well, but they often have a bump up below 200Hz, which is well liked in the pro audio world. This also differs from box to box since they have a lot of products. Their technology is way beyond home hifi technology so if you have the money I would bet that they could set up the wildest of your dreams system in your home.
They have pioneered the L-Isa system, which isn't widely used but is quite impressive. And now they are doing a decent amount of immersive audio which is quite a complicated processing but sounds incredible.
That being said, their line arrays are not low in distortion as the Pro Audio world still prefers some good additional harmonic content.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

You can also take a look at Meyer Sound.

Both L-Acoustics *and* Meyer Sound are measured-focused science-based companies, with low sensitivity for cost (in that they play at the high end of budgets), and utilize powerful DSPs. Both companies could easily go for a ruler flat response anechoically — but they don’t. Which leads to the question, why?

Main hypotheses have been phase compromised with too much IIR, ringing artifacts with too much FIR, processing delay budget when doing live reinforcement, etc.

Is it a feature or a bug that they aren’t ruler flat?

There are also those of us who have listened to ruler flat speakers but somehow prefer premium PA speakers, even at residential SPLs.

Almost nobody is using Meyer or L-Acoustics without a significant amount of DSP so measuring ruler flat is much less important. Most of their products are in larger rooms and are often flown away from any early reflections so the most significant problems happen in the lower frequency ranges. DSP reigns king in Pro Audio so a ruler flat start is hardly the most important. What is needed are powerful and consistent speakers that can cover large areas consistently.

 

[GXAlan]

The preference score isn't a metric I take much notice of TBH, more of a raw data chap myself.

Agreed. There is good data for it, but even the original patent shows the range.

Almost nobody is using Meyer or L-Acoustics without a significant amount of DSP so measuring ruler flat is much less important.

Agree, I run my Meyer Sound HT with a Trinnov and my Meyer Sound 2 ch setup with Dirac. That said, their point source products are supposed to be plug and play AND I actually prefer the 2 channel setup without DSP.

With Trinnov, you can correct to 1/24 octave resolution. It will measure flat, but boy, does it sound broken when you do that from all the ringing artifacts. So, there likely is some benefit to leaving the last bit of correction behind to avoid artifacts.

Some premium JBL Synthesis/Revel speakers aren’t phase linear, because of Harman research saying it isn’t necessary, but I do think that there is also some balance required since there is a difference in sound. It’s possible I am accustomed to the coloration of Meyer Sound, but listen to a strong vocal track on a Meyer Sound and it really sounds like you are in the room with the artist.

What is needed are powerful and consistent speakers that can cover large areas consistently.

+1. Their point source products are incredible even for smaller spaces. I’m also a fan of their Intelligent DC lineup. I have more Meyer Sound gear in my home than I am willing to share