Lack of hi-end speaker measurements

[Purité Audio]

Just glancing at JA’s measurements of Wilson’s latest,
https://www.stereophile.com/content...ties-chronosonic-xvx-loudspeaker-measurements
courtesy of Stereophile, in this particular instance I completely understand why the normal suite of measurements could not be made, hopping over to the Wilson site ( unless I have missed there are no measurements whatsoever, then looking at Magico ( who measure pretty well for passives) not one measurement that I could find, I have seen photograph in their marketing of finished product being loaded on to the Klippel NFS ( bit late in the day perhaps) but why the reticence to show any measurement?
Keith

 

[DSJR]

Because they're crap underneath the cachet and price tags?

I mean - TWO OHM LOAD! Really in this day and age - and price?????

 

[FrantzM]

Just glancing at JA’s measurements of Wilson’s latest,
https://www.stereophile.com/content...ties-chronosonic-xvx-loudspeaker-measurements
courtesy of Stereophile, in this particular instance I completely understand why the normal suite of measurements could not be made, hopping over to the Wilson site ( unless I have missed there are no measurements whatsoever, then looking at Magico ( who measure pretty well for passives) not one measurement that I could find, I have seen photograph in their marketing of finished product being loaded on to the Klippel NFS ( bit late in the day perhaps) but why the reticence to show any measurement?
Keith

Come on Keith!

You know why . I mean; Would they want the $25,000/pair "Lisette" miniMonitor, to be destroyed in measurements by a JBL LSR 308??
No! Repeatable, accurate measurements would let some people realize that the emperor has no cloth... An outcome they'd rather avoid.

 

[LearningToSmile]

Even if your products measure really well, for the top of the line products there's no point in releasing measurements, unless your competitors do the same. Let's take something like the Magico M6 - apparently $172.000 per pair. Even if they're impeccably engineered with absolute best measurements ever, are those going to be 10 times better than speakers that are $17.000 a pair? I don't think so. You're only giving ammunition to detractors who will use those measurements against you. And you might even hurt the sales among people who will for example think your speakers are too neutral and not "voiced" enough based on flat measurements. And of course if your speakers measure like crap, you want to avoid people knowing that.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

...among people who will for example think your speakers are too neutral and not "voiced" enough based on flat measurements...

what a bizarre, misguided notion.

 

[Purité Audio]

Nothing on Yg either, although they are meant to be pretty decent,
https://www.yg-acoustics.com/product/sonja2-series

Are there any ‘boutique/hi-end’ manufacturers that publish measurements ,even Revel as far as I can see ( Ultimate salon2) don’t publish any measurements.
Keith

 

[JustJones]

Do people who buy $172K speakers look at measurements or do they listen for a bit and say those sound great, deliver and set them up for me.

 

[Speedskater]

Because their potential customers have been trained to not believe measurements.

 

[Koeitje]

Never heard a Wilson speaker that actually impressed me.

 

[Ron Texas]

If someone gave me a pair of Wilsons, I would sell them. These speakers are priced for inherited money and NFL players who have brain damage.

 

[AdamG]

D.) All of the above.

 

[PurdueDeep]

Never heard a Wilson speaker that actually impressed me.

Okay in all fairness, the best listening experience(well, I hate to use these words, maybe the speaker I thought that sounded the nicest?) I've ever had has been a Wilson Sabrina pair powered by a bunch of Audio Research gear. I know there's observer bias involved so I don't think about it much.

I'm now chaing the Purifi train

 

[escksu]

This is out of reach for most of us.....

 

[escksu]

Just glancing at JA’s measurements of Wilson’s latest,
https://www.stereophile.com/content...ties-chronosonic-xvx-loudspeaker-measurements
courtesy of Stereophile, in this particular instance I completely understand why the normal suite of measurements could not be made, hopping over to the Wilson site ( unless I have missed there are no measurements whatsoever, then looking at Magico ( who measure pretty well for passives) not one measurement that I could find, I have seen photograph in their marketing of finished product being loaded on to the Klippel NFS ( bit late in the day perhaps) but why the reticence to show any measurement?
Keith

These measurements are what is called synthetic tests. Just like in computers, there are synthetic benchmarks. However, doing well in synthetic benchmarks does not mean it will do well in real world applications.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Come on Keith!

You know why . I mean; Would they want the $25,000/pair "Lisette" miniMonitor, to be destroyed in measurements by a JBL LSR 308??
No! Repeatable, accurate measurements would let some people realize that the emperor has no cloth... An outcome they'd rather avoid.

Even if they measure well, and I suspect Magicos would measure fairly if not very well, the fact remains they would not measure better than a lot of much lower priced competitors like Kef, Revel, JBL, and possibly Paradigm. That could cause a lot of heartburn in customers buying them as a Veblen good. Last thing in the world some hedge fund manager wants is to spend 40 large on a pair of speakers, and at the first party he has showing them off, finding out one of his guests has a pair of $15 Kef Reference 5s that stomp all over them in measured performance.

So no published measurements, for the same reason Roll Royce doesn't publish engine horsepower statistics.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

 

[beeface]

It's too bad that there's no easy way to get high end speakers into the hands of Amir.

The industry would benefit from five-figure and six-figure speakers being paired with headless and shrugging panthers.

 

[dshreter]

It's too bad that there's no easy way to get high end speakers into the hands of Amir.

The industry would benefit from five-figure and six-figure speakers being paired with headless and shrugging panthers.

Out of curiosity, what would you like to see in a $50k speaker designed objectively that isn’t available in $10k designs from Harman, Genelec, etc.?

 

[beeface]

Out of curiosity, what would you like to see in a $50k speaker designed objectively that isn’t available in $10k designs from Harman, Genelec, etc.?

At minimum, I'd want them to not perform worse than a $10k speaker from the brands that you mentioned - this is currently not the case, generally speaking.

For passive speakers: at $50k you're likely well past the point of diminishing returns, so as long as the speaker doesn't perform worse than a Salon2 or a 4367 or whatever, I think someone with the means could justify spending the extra cash for reasons other than performance, such as aesthetics. I feel like at this point it's no longer just a utilitarian purchase, but an emotional one.

For active speakers: I suppose I'd picture something somewhere between a Kii 3 and Beolab 90.

 

[dshreter]

At minimum, I'd want them to not perform worse than a $10k speaker from the brands that you mentioned - this is currently not the case, generally speaking.

For passive speakers: at $50k you're likely well past the point of diminishing returns, so as long as the speaker doesn't perform worse than a Salon2 or a 4367 or whatever, I think someone with the means could justify spending the extra cash for reasons other than performance, such as aesthetics. I feel like at this point it's no longer just a utilitarian purchase, but an emotional one.

For active speakers: I suppose I'd picture something somewhere between a Kii 3 and Beolab 90.

I’m not in the market at the high end, but I’d personally like to see more integrated system-based hifi options. To get the functionality I want typically requires too many boxes, awkward control, or lack of desired features. To me products like the Buchardt A500 and hub are the future, and I’d like to see some bigger brands creating this kind of solution combining tuning and control.