Of course it isn’t, unless the design is licensed from the manufacturer. This is one step away from being a pirate product. For that reason alone, I have voted it “poor.”
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Lab Gruppen FP 10000Q 4-Ch Amp Clone Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #62
Only if the circuit is copied. The video I watched said that the output transistors in one clone was FETs while the other, Bipolar. If so, the circuits are quite different.
The part that is copied is overall connectivity and functionality -- far less than what was copied when the PC revolution occurred with companies cloning the original IBM PC. Without that, this entire computing revolution may have never happened!
The main part is that they blatantly copied the appearance and industrial design in a shameless attempt to trick customers/bystanders thinking it were the original real thing:
vs.
I think this makes very clear what the intention is here, illegal or not. Make profit using the work and effort of someone else by selling a perfect 100% look-a-like so that if you really don't pay attention even the pros would think it was an original.
Waxx
Major Contributor
These clones are very popular for illigal rave soundsystems down here. They are cheap, give a ton of power for decent (to pa norms) sound and easy to repair. But i would not use them for a serious setup, because they break down a lot. But as those systems are sized by the police from time to time and get heavy abused a lot, those systems need to be cheap, not durable.
The real Labgruppen amps are something else, only be beaten by Powersoft, and not with a big margin. They are still a workhorse for the pro audio world, they are very reliable, good sounding tools, easy to integrate in a big rig with their lake dsp build in. I would love to see both powersoft and labgruppen amps tested here. But both cost a ton of money...
The real Labgruppen amps are something else, only be beaten by Powersoft, and not with a big margin. They are still a workhorse for the pro audio world, they are very reliable, good sounding tools, easy to integrate in a big rig with their lake dsp build in. I would love to see both powersoft and labgruppen amps tested here. But both cost a ton of money...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #65
Not a chance. There is no brand. No one is confused what they are buying. They are trading quality/support and price from a very old design.
Got it, I agree.
psemeraro
Member
Hi Keith. Modern pro amps are built to be as powerful and light and small as possible which means massive fan cooling is required. As well, serious AC service is required to feed them at full capacity. That raw power has to come from somewhere. I also dont recall seeing any of the actual high end pro amps tested here at ASR? The cheap Crowns, Behringers, and fake clone amps are not used by pro sound companies and on tours but they do have some utility for weekend warriors, bar bands, etc. Lab, Powersoft, L'Acoustic, Crown ITech-HD, those are the workhorses of the pro touring world. One step below is the Crest Pro series and QSC PL, both great amps but lower power so you need lots of them - fine for installs but not for large touring. For home use the QSC fans are reasonably quiet when used at low power but will spin up loudly when you ask them to start doing real work.
Pat
ocinn
Senior Member
As someone in the live sound world, for subwoofers, we have mostly transitioned away from the Lab clones and moved onto the Powersoft clones (CVR/Admark/PKN, etc). The Lab clones are annoying as they aren't universal/auto-switching voltage. So you need to commit to 100-127v or 208-250v ranges. And they are considerably less efficient.
At the end of the day, max sustained output power is a function of [({Input VA}*efficiency)/channel count]-thermal throttling.
So two-channel amplifiers, and amplifiers run on 240v high current services, or, even better - 3 phase power, will always come on top in terms of output. vs, let's say a 4ch, 120v @15A amp.
This can be seen in this test:
All amplifiers fall down to the supply power * efficiency factor. The Lab amp is thermally throttled at 2 and 4 ohms, and the Crown is thermally throttled at all impedances. The Powersoft has by far the highest efficiency and is not thermally throttled under any load for any duration.
3-phase amplifiers like the PKN 40K can acccept 480v*32A. Thats 26.6KVA. So assuming ~85% efficiency, we are looking at 5.65kw x 4ch sustained. Incredible stuff.
Amplifiers like the CVR D4302 can manage short-term peaks of 12.4KW per channel, falling down to 3300w or so once capacitor banks are exhausted.
At the end of the day, max sustained output power is a function of [({Input VA}*efficiency)/channel count]-thermal throttling.
So two-channel amplifiers, and amplifiers run on 240v high current services, or, even better - 3 phase power, will always come on top in terms of output. vs, let's say a 4ch, 120v @15A amp.
This can be seen in this test:
All amplifiers fall down to the supply power * efficiency factor. The Lab amp is thermally throttled at 2 and 4 ohms, and the Crown is thermally throttled at all impedances. The Powersoft has by far the highest efficiency and is not thermally throttled under any load for any duration.
3-phase amplifiers like the PKN 40K can acccept 480v*32A. Thats 26.6KVA. So assuming ~85% efficiency, we are looking at 5.65kw x 4ch sustained. Incredible stuff.
Amplifiers like the CVR D4302 can manage short-term peaks of 12.4KW per channel, falling down to 3300w or so once capacitor banks are exhausted.
I agree the whole clone business is a shoddy deal , riding on the coat tails of others efforts , its morally illegal imho and should not be endorsed .
The tell tale is this: Why don't they just make their own power amp brand ? it could very well be based on this old LAB design very closesly thats not a problem but stealing "lab gruppens" thunder by pretending to be them even in very lose sense is the imoral part .
Behringer for example has a lot of basically copycat designs but they don't call them QCS or Genelec they are branded Behringer .
I would not have any problems at all with this amp if just was another sticker on it and did not mentioned LAB Gruppen in their marketting.
it even says "made in sweden" ffs
criminals yes ! Wonder what the insurance thinks when your house burns down ? The CE and FTC labeling sems just as legit as the "made in sweden" label The clone doesn't have 'Made in Sweden' on it, that's the real one.I agree the whole clone business is a shoddy deal , riding on the coat tails of others efforts , its morally illegal imho and should not be endorsed .
The tell tale is this: Why don't they just make their own power amp brand ? it could very well be based on this old LAB design very closesly thats not a problem but stealing "lab gruppens" thunder by pretending to be them even in very lose sense is the imoral part .
Behringer for example has a lot of basically copycat designs but they don't call them QCS or Genelec they are branded Behringer .
I would not have any problems at all with this amp if just was another sticker on it and did not mentioned LAB Gruppen in their marketting.
it even says "made in sweden" ffs
OP
- Thread Starter
- #71
When I did my search, I could only find FP10000Q designation, not lab gruppen. So they are doing what you say.
Ooh so the pictures up tread are the real amp
your pictures in post 1 only show the original lab gruppen model number and the striking visual similarity ? still a bit shoddy but not as badThe post you quoted shows three images. Only the bottom image shows the real deal and that's the only one that says 'Lab Gruppen' and 'Made In Sweden'. The clone just has a bar code sticker where that info is on the real one.Ooh so the pictures up tread are the real amp
I'd put this in a recommend for subwoofer application and nothing else. For $800 it could be considered good value still, but given that its sold as something for full range I wouldnt rec for that purpose unless you're using it for PA in public settings where it probably wont matter. Not something conventionally Hifi but useful when used w/ intent.
4 channels at 1.5kw is still a lot of power even if its not good power. W/ the existence of affordable high end Class D 1000w+ amps like Icepower or Pascal which still cost like $300-500 a module @ 4 channels it would still be a lot more expensive than this i guess. If you could afford other options id look there but otherwise its very application specific i think.
4 channels at 1.5kw is still a lot of power even if its not good power. W/ the existence of affordable high end Class D 1000w+ amps like Icepower or Pascal which still cost like $300-500 a module @ 4 channels it would still be a lot more expensive than this i guess. If you could afford other options id look there but otherwise its very application specific i think.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #75
That's correct. They don't even put a company name in there. Seems like there is one or two factories producing these and sellers just buy and resell them as FP10000Q. I have not found a "company" name even for the one I tested! You sort of have to know they exist and find a reliable place to order it from.Ooh so the pictures up tread are the real amp
I have a bit of a problem even with entertaining to review a clone product that has no provenance for quality control, warranty/service and/or customer support. It must be my personal problem that does not require reply.
Few decades ago, we had a few QSC power amps in one of our studios.
QSC is a local SoCal company, so I wanted to find out what their latest amp offerings were.
Sad to find out that QSC has discontinued its entire line of traditional, standalone power amplifiers as of 2026 (per few AIs).
That’s why these amps are available for as little as $350, while the original model -which hasn’t been manufactured since two years—cost nearly eight times as much.I have a bit of a problem even with entertaining to review a clone product that has no provenance for quality control, warranty/service and/or customer support. It must be my personal problem that does not require reply.
Few decades ago, we had a few QSC power amps in one of our studios.
QSC is a local SoCal company, so I wanted to find out what their latest amp offerings were.
Sad to find out that QSC has discontinued its entire line of traditional, standalone power amplifiers as of 2026 (per few AIs).
You don’t pay for that level of service and reliability; you’d rather buy two or even four of them.
You wouldn’t believe how many low-budget sound systems and entire clubs in Europe are powered by these amps.
Before the 2024 installation of metal barriers, an estimated 2,000 people have committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate bridge.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #79
People rely on solid state amps to have reasonable reliability. And for the risk they are taking, they pay less than a quarter of the price. It is one of those things that if it works initially, it is likely to work well if you don't push it to the limit and keep it there.
A linear research 44M20 will attempt to draw >32A @230V (we limit the input current in software to 32A) when running 4*4ohm nominal subs. https://linea-research.co.uk/wp-con...ets/Datasheets and Brochures/44M Brochure.pdf
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