KTB vs Topping E30 listening tests

[Pdxwayne]

OK well this discussion arose in the E30 thread with claims about the KTB being better at detail retrieval than the E30...

True, it was all based on my recollection of my observations when I have about a month with KTB in a small bedroom. Once I updated the firmware, I only used KTB for like 10 minutes with headphones. The rest of my time I spent cleaning up my temporary listening bedroom (where I listen to KTB with speakers setup) as my son is back from college.....Moved setup to living room and try integrated my setup with living room setup (without using KTB), get ready for Thanksgiving, etc.

I didn't get listen to the KTB again until maybe 10 days later, at very moderate volume, in my much larger living room, which I never done before, and with different amp. I listened to it a bit louder last couple days and found the sharpness not that much anymore.

Maybe I should just move the same setup back to that small bedroom once my son is back to college and check again in January. ; )

 

[levimax]

I think it is worth a little trouble to get it right i.e. level matched and easy switching. At the end of the day you need to convince your self and if you do you will be set free to save money and enjoy music for the rest of your life. You can use the following to switch and level match.

https://www.amazon.com/Fosmon-A1602...s/dp/B00HNCPR92/ref=psdc_172546_t2_B00KXVBB3Q

https://www.amazon.com/PAC-LC-1-Rem...ttenuator&qid=1606938210&s=electronics&sr=1-3

 

[Pdxwayne]

I think it is worth a little trouble to get it right i.e. level matched and easy switching. At the end of the day you need to convince your self and if you do you will be set free to save money and enjoy music for the rest of your life. You can use the following to switch and level match.

https://www.amazon.com/Fosmon-A1602...s/dp/B00HNCPR92/ref=psdc_172546_t2_B00KXVBB3Q

https://www.amazon.com/PAC-LC-1-Rem...ttenuator&qid=1606938210&s=electronics&sr=1-3

Cool. I was thinking the same about switch. I think I have one somewhere in the house.

For level matching, I will see if I can level match the e30 to KTB. Switch E30 to PRE mode and turn it down and check voltage.

BTW, checking voltage is as simple as playing something to it, not connecting it's RCA out to anything, and check one RCA cable with volt meter, am I correct?

 

[Pdxwayne]

I think it is worth a little trouble to get it right i.e. level matched and easy switching. At the end of the day you need to convince your self and if you do you will be set free to save money and enjoy music for the rest of your life. You can use the following to switch and level match.

https://www.amazon.com/Fosmon-A1602...s/dp/B00HNCPR92/ref=psdc_172546_t2_B00KXVBB3Q

https://www.amazon.com/PAC-LC-1-Rem...ttenuator&qid=1606938210&s=electronics&sr=1-3

Found one that was given to me years back. Will check later if it works. : )

I am getting closer to easy switch. Next is volume match.

 

[levimax]

Cool. I was thinking the same about switch. I think I have one somewhere in the house.

For level matching, I will see if I can level match the e30 to KTB. Switch E30 to PRE mode and turn it down and check voltage.

BTW, checking voltage is as simple as playing something to it, not connecting it's RCA out to anything, and check one RCA cable with volt meter, am I correct?

Use something like REW to generate 400 hz tone and measure AC volts @ speaker terminals

 

[Pdxwayne]

Use something like REW to generate 400 hz tone and measure AC volts @ speaker terminals

Thanks! This is for speakers listening test, I suppose?

For headphones testing, maybe check at DAC output? My node2i is Bluetooth capable. I am thinking to stream YouTube video that play 400 Hz tone to node2i and node2i in turn output that digital signal to DAC. Then, check voltage at DAC RCA output?

 

[threni]

Thanks! This is for speakers listening test, I suppose?

For headphones testing, maybe check at DAC output? My node2i is Bluetooth capable. I am thinking to stream YouTube video that play 400 Hz tone to node2i and node2i in turn output that digital signal to DAC. Then, check voltage at DAC RCA output?

You can generate wav files with REW. I'm not sure of the fidelity of playing audio from youtube. Perhaps if you choose 1080 or 4k the audio similarly comes down at a higher resolution, assuming it genuinely is 400Hz, etc.

 

[Pdxwayne]

You can generate wav files with REW. I'm not sure of the fidelity of playing audio from youtube. Perhaps if you choose 1080 or 4k the audio similarly comes down at a higher resolution, assuming it genuinely is 400Hz, etc.

Thanks! I want use node2i as the output device to the DAC when doing listening tests. Node2i won't take USB in. I think it could take mini toslink in, but as Amir already tested, his unit measured poorly when using toslink in. Streaming has better quality. Thus, I plan to stream music to node2i via my phone.

400 Hz tone like this one should be good?

I guess this is how I measure voltage?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Maybe I should measure at L30 preout instead?

I do wonder about other factors. For example, even if I could match DAC output, could other factors like output resistance of the DAC cause the L30 to behave differently?

 

[levimax]

Thanks! This is for speakers listening test, I suppose?

For headphones testing, maybe check at DAC output? My node2i is Bluetooth capable. I am thinking to stream YouTube video that play 400 Hz tone to node2i and node2i in turn output that digital signal to DAC. Then, check voltage at DAC RCA output?

Checking voltage at the DAC would probably work but if possible it is better to check after the amp either at speaker terminals or headphone output with headphones plugged in (can you get your multimeter probes on the head phone jack from inside you headphone amp without danger?) The advantage to after amplifier is it eliminates any possible effects of interaction between the DAC output and amplifier input and it would be higher voltage so it will be easier and more accurate to measure... probably not a big deal but the fewer the potential issues the better.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Checking voltage at the DAC would probably work but if possible it is better to check after the amp either at speaker terminals or headphone output with headphones plugged in (can you get your multimeter probes on the head phone jack from inside you headphone amp without danger?) The advantage to after amplifier is it eliminates any possible effects of interaction between the DAC output and amplifier input and it would be higher voltage so it will be easier and more accurate to measure... probably not a big deal but the fewer the potential issues the better.

Thanks! Haha, I asked similar question just before your post. Maybe L30 preout is a better choice? I would hope L30 preout behave the same as it's amp output?

 

[Pdxwayne]

OK. I got sighted headphones test done using quick switch. Listened to a few songs. Not even doing exact volume match nor double blinds yet. I can't really hear a difference with my Philips X2hr. I asked my son to do a quick comparison to tell me which has clearer highs, he said "I want to say A" (which is KTB), then he said it is so close he can't be sure. : )

Conclusion, with L30 and Philips X2hr, before doing exact volume match, too close to know which is sharper and which is warmer. : )

Edit:
Next up is attempting to do volume match for headphones comparison.

After that, will do stereo amp and speakers and subs. ....This will likely take a while....As I can't play music loud with family members around all the time. ; )

 

[Pdxwayne]

My Philips x2hr has official published distortion of < 0.1% THD.
Not sure how it was measured.

I would say typically with speakers, I like +80 dB average volume with peaks at +90db. With headphones, likely I go higher than that.
From https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-philips/fidelio-x2hr/, I see 90 dB thd chart as this:

Would that mean during my test, I got around 45 dB SINAD for lots of the highs? Good enough to hear differences in DAC?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Here is my speakers measurements. Would it mean potentially, my speakers are more transparent in 2K and up region as compared to headphones?

 

[kokono]

Why do you guys make simple things complicated?
I've listened both and the Khadas destroys Topping, or at least I like it more..

 

[BDWoody]

Why do you guys make simple things complicated?
I've listened both and the Khadas destroys Topping, or at least I like it more..

So we don't waste money because we're fooling ourselves...

 

[Pdxwayne]

Why do you guys make simple things complicated?
I've listened both and the Khadas destroys Topping, or at least I like it more..

Because we need to balance subjectives with objectives. ; )

 

[kokono]

Because we need to balance subjectives with objectives. ; )

Yes, I know the moment you start to pick blind, you're not so sure anymore.
But the first moment you hear the Khadas and the Topping, you know which is better..

 

[BDWoody]

Yes, I know the moment you start to pick blind, you're not so sure anymore.
But the first moment you hear the Khadas and the Topping, you know which is better..

Uh huh...

 

[Pdxwayne]

Yes, I know the moment you start to pick blind, you're not so sure anymore.
But the first moment you hear the Khadas and the Topping, you know which is better..

Curious, did you update the firmware in your KTB?

What source and playback system do you use to compare?