KTB vs Topping E30 listening tests

[Pdxwayne]

Hi All,

I got my e30 2 days ago and in comparison to my Khadas Tone Board, my subjective impression is that KTB is sharper and E30 is warmer.

Of course, to most people here, subjective listening meant nothing. Volume matched double blind study should be conducted.

So I open this thread to track my planned listening test progress.

I would also like to ask anyone who have done either subjective and/or double blind comparison between these two DAC to comment. Would be great to also list the associated equipments, source and songs, etc. Thanks!

 

[BDWoody]

Do you have a voltmeter?

Also, single blind is fine to start. Mix up cables after you've matched levels and go back and forth yourself. If you are still successful in identifying one from the other, add in the helper who also needs to not know the source for the 'double' part of the double blind. Don't underestimate the importance of the level matching.

For me, it wasn't necessary. I was able to send a more expensive DAC back and got better speakers.

I'm glad you are trying to go through this hassle. Most are satisfied by making endless claims without ever even trying to implement any controls.

 

[daftcombo]

The main measurable difference between the two is the ESS Hump in the KTB.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Do you have a voltmeter?

Also, single blind is fine to start. Mix up cables after you've matched levels and go back and forth yourself. If you are still successful in identifying one from the other, add in the helper who also needs to not know the source for the 'double' part of the double blind. Don't underestimate the importance of the level matching.

For me, it wasn't necessary. I was able to send a more expensive DAC back and got better speakers.

I'm glad you are trying to go through this hassle. Most are satisfied by making endless claims without ever even trying to implement any controls.

I do have voltmeter (a multimeter).

I am thinking speakers listening test in my living room. I do have Radio Shack sound pressure meter that I can use to volume match.

 

[Pdxwayne]

The main measurable difference between the two is the ESS Hump in the KTB.

Do you know if it is audible? If so, how to listen for it? Thanks!

 

[Pdxwayne]

Chain:
Start with Node2i coaxial out. Playing WAV from USB drive.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Plan to connect to either DAC via coaxial in, DAC RCA out to Topping L30. Topping L30 preout to power amp (Parasound A21). Parasound to Paradigm Persona B and Paradigm Sub 15.

Sound meter in button right of picture for volume matching.

 

[daftcombo]

Do you know if it is audible? If so, how to listen for it? Thanks!

I don't know but some people like DACs with that hump for a reason I guess.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Both DAC would be powered by 5V 2A cellphone power plug.

All equipments will be plugged into Furman Elite 15i.

 

[Sukie]

Hi All,

I got my e30 2 days ago and in comparison to my Khadas Tone Board, my subjective impression is that KTB is sharper and E30 is warmer.

Of course, to most people here, subjective listening meant nothing. Volume matched double blind study should be conducted.

So I open this thread to track my planned listening test progress.

I would also like to ask anyone who have done either subjective and/or double blind comparison between these two DAC to comment. Would be great to also list the associated equipments, source and songs, etc. Thanks!

Definitely keep us posted and happy testing

 

[Pdxwayne]

Speakers ~10.5 ft from head. Speakers ~8 ft apart.

Soft listening with KTB, measured at ~70db from sitting position, too soft to hear any sharpness. Will need to wait at later time to check with a volume level that starting to sound sharp to use as baseline volume level for comparison. Right now kids taking classes from home....

 

[raif71]

Speakers ~10.5 ft from head. Speakers ~8 ft apart.

Soft listening with KTB, measured at ~70db from sitting position, too soft to hear any sharpness. Will need to wait at later time to check with a volume level that starting to sound sharp to use as baseline volume level for comparison. Right now kids taking classes from home....

Besides using speakers, do you plan to use headphones for testing ?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Besides using speakers, do you plan to use headphones for testing ?

I was reminded again today why I started to look into DAC, headphones amp and headphones. I was trying to listen to a song loud with speakers to get a baseline and right away goy complaints from my wife. : )

With my wife and kids all staying home (working from home and distance learning) all day long, it would be hard for me to do listening tests with speakers. : (

I would like to do headphones tests. But don't know how to do sound level matching with headphones....

 

[raif71]

I was reminded again today why I started to look into DAC, headphones amp and headphones. I was trying to listen to a song loud with speakers to get a baseline and right away goy complaints from my wife. : )

With my wife and kids all staying home (working from home and distance learning) all day long, it would be hard for me to do listening tests with speakers. : (

I would like to do headphones tests. But don't know how to do sound level matching with headphones....

Looks like we're in the same boat. No speakers when the wife and children are around but my usage of open back headphones too get complain from my wife as she could hear the sound coming from the headphones. As a result, I got an m50x (it's closed back) but later I changed to iems .

 

[solderdude]

An SPL meter is not suitable for level matching.
It is not accurate within 0.1dB and moving it slightly may already yield a bigger difference.
As BDWoody mentioned you need to use a voltmeter and for instance a 400Hz tone and level match within 1% at the DAC outputs or at the speaker outputs.

It is of the utmost importance that you do not know which DAC is being used. All give-aways should be eliminated (displays etc.) and it should be done by a helper randomly (without hinting) plugging in (or pretending to swap) one of the 2 DACs and making notes.

Use 44.1kHz files only.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just seconding solderdude.

Level matching is the critical job #1 for listening tests.
Level matching by SPL is not good enough.
Just as he said, use a 400 hz tone and match within 1% on voltage.

 

[Pdxwayne]

An SPL meter is not suitable for level matching.
It is not accurate within 0.1dB and moving it slightly may already yield a bigger difference.
As BDWoody mentioned you need to use a voltmeter and for instance a 400Hz tone and level match within 1% at the DAC outputs or at the speaker outputs.

It is of the utmost importance that you do not know which DAC is being used. All give-aways should be eliminated (displays etc.) and it should be done by a helper randomly (without hinting) plugging in (or pretending to swap) one of the 2 DACs and making notes.

Use 44.1kHz files only.

Thanks! How would a helper easily switch dac when there is a slight difference in output level?

 

[M00ndancer]

Thanks! How would a helper easily switch dac when there is a slight difference in output level?

If it's only the DACs that are different, then measure the output from each DAC when adjusting levels.

 

[solderdude]

Thanks! How would a helper easily switch dac when there is a slight difference in output level?

That's indeed the difficult point.
Either one has to adjust the volume in the software per DAC or one has to use a (passive ?) volume control with the loudest one.
In the good old days I used a cassette deck for this (when comparing CDP's).

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Do you guys really think volume matching is that critical in this case? I could see if this were an instant switch box A/B comparison, but when one dac is going to have to be disconnected and the other switched in? Could a person not "fool" their brain by simply turning the volume down before switching the other dac in and then turning it up to a suitable level once the new dac is connected? It seems to me like it would be OK for the listener (who should be blind-folded afaic) to be able to request volume increases or decreases while listening. As long as he's not aware of which dac is plugged in I don't think it would impact the test results...