BlackTalon
Addicted to Fun and Learning
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Knives. Knifethread.
- Thread starter digitalfrost
- Start date
You may have heard of Ken Onion, who is an inductee of the "BLADE Magazine Cutlery Hall of Fame" and he may even be a member of the KnifeMakers Guild.
In partnership w/many brands, he is known for many innovative designs and mechanical inventions, including the 'SpeedSafe" assisted opening knives. I have a few Ken Onion custom/designed knives in my collection and I respect him.
[I think his last name is pronounced as "oh-9", since he is from Hawaii]
I never imagined to see his signature on a sharpener:
Dan D’Agostino (Elite) version will cost you an extra Benjamin!
In partnership w/many brands, he is known for many innovative designs and mechanical inventions, including the 'SpeedSafe" assisted opening knives. I have a few Ken Onion custom/designed knives in my collection and I respect him.
[I think his last name is pronounced as "oh-9", since he is from Hawaii]
I never imagined to see his signature on a sharpener:
Dan D’Agostino (Elite) version will cost you an extra Benjamin!
gorb
Active Member
Purchased a Pro-Tech Runt 5 and Microtech Hera a couple weeks ago and a Reate EXO-M gravity knife just the other day. Blade HQ had a limited run of cheaper EXO-M in aluminum with nitro-v blades instead of the normal titanium with premium steel. Only $129 so they sold out quickly. I wanted a drop point blade instead of tanto but those sold through extremely quickly.
Can anyone recommend a Santoku type knife with 5" blade of good quality, around 50 of x currency. I'm having difficulty sourcing something with a normal depth (for chopping) but a shorter length blade. Also is anyone using whetstones - are they difficult to use, how many do you use, and how much time do you need to sharpen a knife with them?
I use a KME sharpener with diamond hones up to 1500 grit, so I don’t go all the way to mirror finish. (I do with the blades in my planes.) but I resharpen fairly frequently. Frequent sharpening means light touchups and it takes much less time.
Rick “KME is good for non-experts” Denney
OP
- Thread Starter
- #346
It will not be easy to find a Santoku with such a short blade.
Wüsthof makes one, but not for 50$. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001WN9OG
Victorinox has good knives in your price range, but I think they will all be a bit larger than 5". https://www.victorinox.com/de-DE/Santoku-Kollektion/cms/santoku-collection/
I also use the KME sharphener that Rick mentioned, but in my opinion it's more for short pocket knives, for big kitchen knives I would use water stones. I linked some good instructional videos here:
Knives. Knifethread.
I think these "Roller Sharpeners" (w/magnet attachment) is have become the latest and most fashionable knife sharpeners in the market. How do I know? :rolleyes: Well, it seems that aliexpress has been flooded by many variations on this concept (prices range from $30s to 3digits). Some provide...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Which stone to get depends where you live and what is available, I would start with a 1000/3000 combination and get a holder to elevate it somewhat above the table. Something like this:
Kombi Schleifstein 1000/3000 mit Schleifsteinhalter
Japanischer Wasser-Kombi-Schleifstein mit zwei Körnungen nach JIS-Japan. Inklusive einem Schleifsteinhalter aus Kunststoff.
oryoki.de
Or if can/want to spend a little more:
Kombi Schleifstein Naniwa 1000/3000 | ORYOKI
Japanischer Kombi Schleifstein Naniwa Combination Stone 1000/3000. Hohe Schleifwirkung, Top Preis-Leistung. Im Oryoki Onlineshop
oryoki.de
Naniwa Schleifsteinhalter, verstellbar | ORYOKI
Naniwa Schleifsteinhalter, verstellbar für Wasserschleifsteine 14 - 21 cm. Jetzt online bei ORYOKI kaufen!
oryoki.de
If you don't want to learn how to do this, rolling sharpeners https://www.horl.com/us/en/the-horl-principle/ or these systems here are fairly idiot proof and knive size doesn't matter:
Knives. Knifethread.
I think these "Roller Sharpeners" (w/magnet attachment) is have become the latest and most fashionable knife sharpeners in the market. How do I know? :rolleyes: Well, it seems that aliexpress has been flooded by many variations on this concept (prices range from $30s to 3digits). Some provide...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Last edited:
BlackTalon
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Are you in the US? Japanese Knife Imports doesn't have anything on their web site right now, but Cutlery and More has a couple:
Wusthof Gourmet Santoku Knife - 5" Hollow Edge
The Wusthof Gourmet Hollow Edge Santoku Knife is designed with a thinner blade than the traditional Chef's Knife, at a 10 degree cutting edge. This Eastern-style knife is designed for balance and agility and features a hollow edge which brings extra efficiency and speed to chopping, slicing, and...
cutleryandmore.com
Yaxell Hana Small Japanese Santoku Knife - 4.75" Stainless Steel Blade
The Yaxell Hana series offers extraordinary value in a handcrafted Japanese chef's knife with impeccable finishing touches and minimalist simplicity. The core steel ("MOVAX") is highly corrosion resistant and hard enough to hold a fine edge, but soft enough to be more forgiving and more durable...
cutleryandmore.com
Stones can be hard initially if you have never used any before. Most times I only need to maintain with a ~1000 grit followed by stropping on loaded felt or leather. Sometimes I need to drop down to 500 or 250. My highest are 7000 grit, but honestly that's only needed for some single bevels. My knives range quite a bit in steel composition, so the collection includes some diamond plates as well for really tough steels. I'm careful with those though, as I don't need to sharpen a ton so my skills are on the 'weekend warrior' level.
Jon Broida at Japanese knife Imports has a lot of good sharpening videos. Here is the channel: https://www.youtube.com/@JKnifeImports
And here's one from featuring Dave Martell -- he was ahead of the curve on Japanese knife sharpening ~20 years ago:
I 95% use one knife and don't see the need for a larger blade. I typically chop up onions, peppers, garlic and all the usual veg. I am a knife novice, but admit finding larger blades a bit unwieldy.
I have no idea whether a 5" chefs knife would be just as good, but I like having a deeper blade and shorter chefs knives seem to be less deep.
How long does it take to learn, how much do you spend on stones, and how often and for how long do you sharpen your knives?
I just want to be able to pick up a knife and be able to chop and slice with it. Before covid this wasn't so hard, but now the quality of knives (or insert whatever household item you want here) seems to have taken a nosedive. If I have to spend £60-£100 get a decent knife, compared to half that before 2019, then I suppose it would be economical in the long run to know how to sharpen it properly, whereas before I might just buy a new one.
TBH I don't really want to 'get into' knives. Life is short as it is, but if that is what is necessary then...what can you do?
Count Arthur
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My twopence.
For home use, I don't think you have to go overboard on an expensive knife, or a wet stone. You just need to be able to keep a knife "sharp enough" and maybe watch some videos to brush up on technique, for both sharpening and use.
The main knife I use in the kitchen, for pretty much everything, is a 10", ~25cm cooks knife I bought about 30 years ago. It's stainless, but I don't know which specific alloy, likely nothing special, as it wasn't particularly expensive. It looks similar to this, but has a plastic/delrin? handle:
I occassionally use a wet stone, if it really needs it, but for just a "top up" I use a ceramic rod or a steel:
I don't mess around for ages, making it so sharp that it will slice through a silk handkerchief dropped across the blade, but plenty sharp enough for chopping, tomatoes, onions and the like.
For home use, I don't think you have to go overboard on an expensive knife, or a wet stone. You just need to be able to keep a knife "sharp enough" and maybe watch some videos to brush up on technique, for both sharpening and use.
The main knife I use in the kitchen, for pretty much everything, is a 10", ~25cm cooks knife I bought about 30 years ago. It's stainless, but I don't know which specific alloy, likely nothing special, as it wasn't particularly expensive. It looks similar to this, but has a plastic/delrin? handle:
I occassionally use a wet stone, if it really needs it, but for just a "top up" I use a ceramic rod or a steel:
I don't mess around for ages, making it so sharp that it will slice through a silk handkerchief dropped across the blade, but plenty sharp enough for chopping, tomatoes, onions and the like.
I use stones including water stones for my plane blades, but I have a device that holds the blade at the correct (30-degree) angle.
And I have absolutely used the KME sharpener for kitchen knives--I just drop the angle down to maybe 20 degrees compared to a carry knife. (I mark the blade with a sharpie and then adjust the angle to match what's there--when the fine stone will take off all the sharpie marking). But my most-used kitchen knives are a 6" chef's knife and a 4" paring knife. An 8" chef's knife is a distant third, and rarely needs sharpening. My long blades for carving big pieces of meat stay sharp for years. But we carve big pieces of meat only rarely in Chez Denney.
Holding a blade at the correct angle while sharpening free-hand is apparently easy for some folks. It is not for me, even though I've been free-hand sharpening everything from axes to lathe cutters and drill bits for some decades. The devices that hold the blade at the correct angle are a game changer for me. Like you, my objective is a sharp blade or cutter--the hobby is doing the cutting, not making the tool.
For things like lathe cutters, I hollow-grind them and then I can freehand the honing because the hone will sit on the edge of the hollow grind and just make the sharp part sharper--the grind itself controls the angle. But that's not appropriate for knives--it will disfigure the blade and, of course, most good knives are not hollow ground.
The most important thing I learned making blades sharp is that the coarsest stone makes the blade sharp enough to slice paper. Even the coarse stone should raise a burr. The finer stones don't make it sharper, they refine the edge. If it's not sharp with the coarse stone, the fine stone won't make it so.
Rick "correct answer for how long it takes--somewhere between 30 minutes and 50 years" Denney
And I have absolutely used the KME sharpener for kitchen knives--I just drop the angle down to maybe 20 degrees compared to a carry knife. (I mark the blade with a sharpie and then adjust the angle to match what's there--when the fine stone will take off all the sharpie marking). But my most-used kitchen knives are a 6" chef's knife and a 4" paring knife. An 8" chef's knife is a distant third, and rarely needs sharpening. My long blades for carving big pieces of meat stay sharp for years. But we carve big pieces of meat only rarely in Chez Denney.
Holding a blade at the correct angle while sharpening free-hand is apparently easy for some folks. It is not for me, even though I've been free-hand sharpening everything from axes to lathe cutters and drill bits for some decades. The devices that hold the blade at the correct angle are a game changer for me. Like you, my objective is a sharp blade or cutter--the hobby is doing the cutting, not making the tool.
For things like lathe cutters, I hollow-grind them and then I can freehand the honing because the hone will sit on the edge of the hollow grind and just make the sharp part sharper--the grind itself controls the angle. But that's not appropriate for knives--it will disfigure the blade and, of course, most good knives are not hollow ground.
The most important thing I learned making blades sharp is that the coarsest stone makes the blade sharp enough to slice paper. Even the coarse stone should raise a burr. The finer stones don't make it sharper, they refine the edge. If it's not sharp with the coarse stone, the fine stone won't make it so.
Rick "correct answer for how long it takes--somewhere between 30 minutes and 50 years" Denney
BlackTalon
Addicted to Fun and Learning
To learn? A couple hours. To get proficient is a bit more time (develop muscle memory).
It does not take long to sharpen one knife, especially if you just want to go to 1000 grit. You can generally go straight to that stone unless the blade is really beat up (microchips, etc. you need to grind past). For a routine sharpening it's about 15 minutes, including setup and clean up. And a synthetic 1000 grit stone, or a 500/1000 combo, can be purchased for less than $50. Check out Japanese Knife Imports for stones. And (I hate to say it) Chef Knives 2 Go. You'll want some felt to use for deburring, too. And felt or leather for stropping.
gorb
Active Member
Bought a Viper Handy recently:
I have two of these - one with a black blade. Love them!
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