Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review

[ThoFi]

Here is my in room measurement of the Klipsch compared to my Harbeth. Mic at listening position.
I do not see the huge dip. why is that?
I like the RP600m

View attachment 187683

One thing I ask myself.
The measurements also show the „called flat“ Harbeth.
In room I do not see the flat FR anymore.
So why looking for a ruler flat speaker?
?

 

[ThoFi]

If you put it in a .zip file you should be able to attach it just fine.

thanks for the conversation !

 

[Nwickliff]

Here is my in room measurement of the Klipsch compared to my Harbeth. Mic at listening position.
I do not see the huge dip. why is that?
I like the RP600m

View attachment 187683

First try using Variable smoothing instead. It is closer to what our ears hear. 1/6 is probably smoothed a but too much. You want to zoom in to see 5db scale not 10db. Lastly you want the graph to cover about 50-60db total not 100db. Change these things and the dips will become much more obvious.

 

[ernestcarl]

Variable smoothing instead. It is closer to what our ears hear.

That would be more like psychoacoustic smoothing (adheres closely to the ERB model). Variable smoothing still emphasizes the dips below the transition which is better to use as a focusing tool for adjusting EQ -- so one does not over-equalize higher up.

 

[Nwickliff]

That would be more like psychoacoustic smoothing (adheres closely to the ERB model). Variable smoothing still emphasizes the dips below the transition which is better to use as a focusing tool for adjusting EQ -- so one does not over-equalize higher up.

Still closer than 1/6 smoothing though correct? that was my point, not closest, but closer. And I tend to just set it and forget it. Are use this for everything because the entire purpose of me measuring is so that I can EQ.

 

[TurtlePaul]

One thing I ask myself.
The measurements also show the „called flat“ Harbeth.
In room I do not see the flat FR anymore.
So why looking for a ruler flat speaker?
?

I dont think that the Harbeth are flat. Your measurements show the textbook BBC dip. As expected given Harbeth’s heritage.

 

[Jim Shaw]

I have made redundant a pair of RP600Ms for well over a year now. I'm not sure about anyone else's musical tastes, but here is how I would humorously describe my experience with the 600Ms:

If you like violins and acoustic guitars, you're gonna dislike the 600Ms with growing intensity;
If you really like banjos and hi-hat cymbals, you're gonna love them.

 

[tjtremor]

I have made redundant a pair of RP600Ms for well over a year now. I'm not sure about anyone else's musical tastes, but here is how I would humorously describe my experience with the 600Ms:

If you like violins and acoustic guitars, you're gonna dislike the 600Ms with growing intensity;
If you really like banjos and hi-hat cymbals, you're gonna love them.

Violins and acoustic guitars sound excellent to me. Banjos & hi-hat... hum I don't see anything special about these playing over rp-600m. Are you implying too bright highs and too much bass ?

They do sound different if you run an old warm amp vs newer high current amp for example.

 

[Nwickliff]

Violins and acoustic guitars sound excellent to me. Banjos & hi-hat... hum I don't so anything special about these playing over rp-600m. Are you implying too bright highs and too much bass ?

They are very precise , efficient for their price range and the choice of amps will completely change their sound signature. If you get a warm, low current amp you'll find the highs won't be as bright, the bass won't be as crazy.

I run them with a high current amp, the very linear,high bandwidth type (no roll off on high freq applification) and I have them bi-amp. They sound very good all around.

They reproduce what's recorded fine. Lots of people like the instrument reproduction on these.
If it's too flat, too much bass, too much highs that's the mixing choice or amp choice; not so much the speakers themselves.

Did you look at the measurements? You can't be serious. It's like looking at a blue car and saying it's not blue, it just depends on what glasses you put on to look at it with. Those frequency dips in the midrange and the rise of the tweeter don't go away with more or less current, unless you got one funky ass amp that has it's own frequency response (another name for distortion). Out of the box, they definitely do NOT reproduce what is recorded. I have these speakers and like them, but I have changed the XO and still have a healthy eq on them for a linear response. Good directivity so you can eq to taste but they are NOT a neutral speaker by any means.

From what I understand current is needed for low sensitivity speakers, wild impedance swings and low impedance especially down in the bass frequencies, which the speaker does not have. It does dip down to 3.2 ohms but that is at 200hz. It has a fairly high sensitivity rating for it's size, and I don't see any crazy swings in impedance.

 

[tjtremor]

Did you look at the measurements? You can't be serious. It's like looking at a blue car and saying it's not blue, it just depends on what glasses you put on to look at it with. Those frequency dips in the midrange and the rise of the tweeter don't go away with more or less current, unless you got one funky ass amp that has it's own frequency response (another name for distortion). Out of the box, they definitely do NOT reproduce what is recorded. I have these speakers and like them, but I have changed the XO and still have a healthy eq on them for a linear response. Good directivity so you can eq to taste but they are NOT a neutral speaker by any means.

Forget the Klipsch for now. Do you know how amps work and the different way they build them ?

Differential amplification vs closed loop feedback vs some other type ?
Class A , Class A/B, Class D, etc ?
Power supply design ?

Just one example, a high current amp, closed loop feedback circuit will have very linear, very high bandwidth which helps with stability of the speaker return & high current demand during phase,impedance shifts.

yes, there's a difference driving them on my side between low current differential amp vs high current negative feedback amp

one is warm, not very bright, bass not too strong, with more mids
one is very linear, high are very bright, bass is strong, mids are normal

 

[Nwickliff]

Forget the Klipsch for now. Do you know how amps work and the different way they build them ?

Differential amplification vs closed loop feedback vs some other type ?
Class A , Class A/B, Class D, etc ?
Power supply design ?

Just one example, a high current amp, closed loop feedback circuit will have very linear, very high bandwidth which helps with stability of the speaker return & high current demand during phase,impedance shifts.

yes, there's a difference driving them on my side between low current differential amp vs high current negative feedback amp

one is warm, not very bright, bass not too strong, with more mids
one is very linear, high are very bright, bass is strong, mids are normal

Can you take measurements? I am not knowledgeable about the different topologies. I have avr a/b, 2 ohm stable high current, damping a/b, pro class d, Aimiya class d. I’ve never a/b’d them but the speakers measure the same across all of them. I know there’s more to speakers than frequency response, but that’s what I focus on most. That abs timing/alignment between all the speakers and the subs.

 

[TurtlePaul]

yes, there's a difference driving them on my side between low current differential amp vs high current negative feedback amp

one is warm, not very bright, bass not too strong, with more mids
one is very linear, high are very bright, bass is strong, mids are normal

You are opening another can of worms if you believe that 'amp rolling' with well measuring modern amps can offset a 7 dB on-axis dip in frequency response.

 

[ThoFi]

I dont think that the Harbeth are flat. Your measurements show the textbook BBC dip. As expected given Harbeth’s heritage.

Do not say that. Otherwise you will be banned from the HUG (Harbeth User group) because Harbeth are the flatest measuring speakers on earth

 

[ThoFi]

Beside the FR measurements I hear that the Klipsch are detailed and vocals, acoustics instruments do sound superb. And yes cymbals are a little bit emphasized.
I say this as a long time Harbeth user.

I also used different amps with my Harbeth. Tube amp, SS, Hybrid, ClassD. and yes they all do sound different.
I measured FRs with the Harbeth and SS vs tube amp.
Surprisingly they measured yery similar .
I found these measurements on my tablet…and using psy, yeah
(Later on today I will make measurements with the Klipsch and SS…)

 

[Nwickliff]

Beside the FR measurements I hear that the Klipsch are detailed and vocals, acoustics instruments do sound superb. And yes cymbals are a little bit emphasized.
I say this as a long time Harbeth user.

I also used different amps with my Harbeth. Tube amp, SS, Hybrid, ClassD. and yes they all do sound different.
I measured FRs with the Harbeth and SS vs tube amp.
Surprisingly they measured yery similar .
I found these measurements on my tablet…and using psy, yeah
(Later on today I will make measurements with the Klipsch and SS…)

Wouldn’t you say that was less about topology and more to do with a nonlinear amplifier? As in distortion and not accurate. At most a 3db inaccuracy in the treble and a 1db change in the other frequencies.

 

[ThoFi]

here the new measurements
comparison SS (Lav) to tube amp (R8) @ different filter settings.
So, I did not see that the dip is any more obvious.
Nor differences between SS and tube.
Lets go...

 

[Jim Shaw]

Violins and acoustic guitars sound excellent to me. Banjos & hi-hat... hum I don't see anything special about these playing over rp-600m. Are you implying too bright highs and too much bass ?

I'm am definitely saying they are too bright and have that annoying dip in the midrange that makes matters worse. I am saying nothing about the low bass. (The instruments I mention don't have much if any low bass.) I picked them because readers who don't 'get' the graphs might need some subjective examples. It would be easy to troll those selections, but what's the point? They are expository, not objective.

My observation (earservation?) is that (momentarily disregarding bass entirely), rock, metal, hip-hop, highly processed voice, wall-of-sound, etc., might tickle your cochleas with the RP600Ms. An orchestra string section will sound screechy and gritty, and bad recordings will have you, before long, retiring the 600Ms for something else. The data and the graphs of the data bear that out. I conjecture that 'reviewers' who have extolled the 600Ms as 'speaker of the year' etc, might likely suffer from hearing loss that coincides with the 600M's extremes. Or, perhaps, their hearing is just jaded from too many short listening tests. Or, maybe, they only judge based upon what they hear of contemporary processed recordings.

If a speaker sounds good with Beyonce but annoying with Bernstein, it's a bad speaker. Even if you only play Beyonce...

 

[TurtlePaul]

So, I did not see that the dip is any more obvious.

You are still posting 10-100 dB charts for the y-axis. That is from literally inaudible to rock concert front row hearing damage levels.

These charts make the 20 dB suck out in your room at 115 hz look flat. These charts make it look like your speakers have bass extension to 25 hz (even though they are down 20 dB).

Set a 40-50 dB range, as is the standard. Maybe also make the aspect ratio of the charts taller/less wide. Speakers built into TVs and laptops would look flat on your chart format.

Human hearing acuity is such that 1 dB level changes make a notable difference, 1 dB on these charts is not legible.

 

[ThoFi]

I'm am definitely saying they are too bright and have that annoying dip in the midrange that makes matters worse. I am saying nothing about the low bass. (The instruments I mention don't have much if any low bass.) I picked them because readers who don't 'get' the graphs might need some subjective examples. It would be easy to troll those selections, but what's the point? They are expository, not objective.

My observation (earservation?) is that (momentarily disregarding bass entirely), rock, metal, hip-hop, highly processed voice, wall-of-sound, etc., might tickle your cochleas with the RP600Ms. An orchestra string section will sound screechy and gritty, and bad recordings will have you, before long, retiring the 600Ms for something else. The data and the graphs of the data bear that out. I conjecture that 'reviewers' who have extolled the 600Ms as 'speaker of the year' etc, might likely suffer from hearing loss that coincides with the 600M's extremes. Or, perhaps, their hearing is just jaded from too many short listening tests. Or, maybe, they only judge based upon what they hear of contemporary processed recordings.

If a speaker sounds good with Beyonce but annoying with Bernstein, it's a bad speaker. Even if you only play Beyonce...

I definitely say that the RP600m are not to bright.
Why you say others may have hearing loss?? Do you know that? Your hearing is ok?? How old are you?
Today I listen to some orchestra string section. Really not bright at all.
To be honst I am surprised that the Klipsch did sound that good…

 

[ThoFi]

You are still posting 10-100 dB charts for the y-axis. That is from literally inaudible to rock concert front row hearing damage levels.

These charts make the 20 dB suck out in your room at 115 hz look flat. These charts make it look like your speakers have bass extension to 25 hz (even though they are down 20 dB).

Set a 40-50 dB range, as is the standard. Maybe also make the aspect ratio of the charts taller/less wide. Speakers built into TVs and laptops would look flat on your chart format.

Human hearing acuity is such that 1 dB level changes make a notable difference, 1 dB on these charts is not legible.

you are right.
but a 20dB dip is the same, no matter what scaling.
If you are looking for 1dB deviations than you must build your room around your hifi and optimaze acoustically.
As far as I known the room has the bigg impact to the FR.