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Klipsch RP-5000F II, RP-6000F II and RP-8000F II reviewed by Erin

More Dynamics Please

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These things can be made to sound very good with some EQ due to good directivity, although you'll lose 3-4 dB of sensitivity doing so.

Losing sensitivity is not great news for those considering Klipsch speakers in search of higher sensitivity. Experience seems to be showing that modifying Klipsch crossovers or using EQ to tame ragged response ends up compromising sensitivity. Might as well also consider speakers with lower sensitivity but more even response that requires less EQ resulting in less sensitivity loss.
 

theyellowspecial

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yea, if only the mid-high shelf isn't there it looked like quite great speakers to me, but why it's upward slope, WHYYYY
The larger waveguides seem to start beaming earlier, so maybe Klipsch is compensating by increasing on-axis treble energy. Just a guess.
 

voodooless

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The larger waveguides seem to start beaming earlier, so maybe Klipsch is compensating by increasing on-axis treble energy. Just a guess.
Earlier beaming you get with larger throats, not bigger waveguides.

As for why these need EQ: that’s probably mostly the house sound. These things need to stand out in the demo room. They’ve always lied about the sensitivities of their speakers, so who cares if you lose another 3 dB? Where it actually counts, down low, you won’t have it anyway. In practice, this will not limit you in any way. Remember that the bass is 10 to 29 dB louder than the rest anyway.
 
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thewas

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It’s the other way round. You said you want narrow baffles but don’t want large baffle effect. That’s not possible due to laws of physics.
That is not what I wanted to say though (but that I want wide baffles but widely available and for reasonable prices like till the 80s) and I am sorry as it seems my formulation was not clear but ambiguous.

And just to be technically fully complete the radiation of a wide baffle loudspeaker, namely an earlier baffle step and higher directivity above, can be also achieved with a narrow baffle with some additional active or passive appropriately delayed sound sources, i.e cardioid bass, for example Kii Three, D&D 8c and few more but unfortunately usually also not cheap.
 

sarumbear

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And just to be technically fully complete the radiation of a wide baffle loudspeaker, namely an earlier baffle step and higher directivity above, can be also achieved with a narrow baffle with some additional active or passive appropriately delayed sound sources, i.e cardioid bass, for example Kii Three, D&D 8c and few more but unfortunately usually also not cheap.
I know I designed and manufactured a speaker that compensates the narrow baffle step.
 

thewas

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sarumbear

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That is a relatively wide baffle classic design though, not a narrow one that emulates it by having a cardioid bass.
Cardioid bass is available on very few speakers, and it has nothing to do with the narrow baffle. You say relatively wide baffle, relative to what. Speakers are just 26cm wide.
 

thewas

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Cardioid bass is available on very few speakers, and it has nothing to do with the narrow baffle.
I wrote that cardioid bass emulates the behaviour of a wide(r) baffle.
You say relatively wide baffle, relative to what. Speakers are just 26cm wide.
Any they just have the baffle step and radiation like any loudspeaker of that width and similar midwoofer dimension, unlike cardioid designs.
 

sarumbear

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I wrote that cardioid bass emulates the behaviour of a wide(r) baffle.
I am afraid that is not the case. You are confusing a polar response with frequency response.

Any they just have the baffle step and radiation like any loudspeaker of that width and similar midwoofer dimension, unlike cardioid designs.
Please show me the baffle step, which should have started at 450Hz for a 260cm (10.2") baffle.

eq2a.gif


graph-frequency.jpg
 

voodooless

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Any they just have the baffle step and radiation like any loudspeaker of that width and similar midwoofer dimension, unlike cardioid designs.
Aren't cardioid systems even worse in this regard? You'll need to boost a lot more than just the baffle step due to the cancelation of the rear wave interfering with the front. This is dependent on the path length of when the two waves collide.
 

abdo123

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Aren't cardioid systems even worse in this regard? You'll need to boost a lot more than just the baffle step due to the cancelation of the rear wave interfering with the front. This is dependent on the path length of when the two waves collide.
The cancellation / cardioid pattern is not the issue here, as the point of the design is to remove that energy to begin with while maintaining the energy on-axis.

the issue is that a passive resistive cardioid will introduce what is basically a port to the system and playing below that port's tuning frequency will require A LOT more excursion.
 

thewas

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I am afraid that is not the case. You are confusing a polar response with frequency response.
? I am talking about polar response/directivity. A wide(r) baffle lowers the transition frequency from 2*pi to pi radiation, same does a cardioid bass.

Please show me the baffle step, which should have started at 450Hz for a 260cm (10.2") baffle.
Why would your loudspeaker radiate in the bass differently than another one with the same baffle size and midwoofer dimensions? You just use the 2.5 way configuration to compensate the baffle step with the 2nd driver instead of doing it with the crossover.

Aren't cardioid systems even worse in this regard? You'll need to boost a lot more than just the baffle step due to the cancelation of the rear wave interfering with the front.
Yes, you need more power/boost for cardioid designs, I didn't mention it though?
 

voodooless

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the issue is that a passive resistive cardioid will introduce what is basically a port to the system and playing below that port's tuning frequency will require A LOT more excursion.
But it's not port behavior doing this, it's the cancelation effect.
 

sarumbear

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Why would your loudspeaker radiate in the bass differently than another one with the same baffle size and midwoofer dimensions? You just use the 2.5 way configuration to compensate the baffle step with the 2nd driver instead of doing it with the crossover.
Thank you for agreeing that you can have a small baffle and compensate for the baffle effect while not using a cardioid design, which is the discussion.
 

voodooless

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Doing what exactly? Just so we're on the same page.
This is basically what happens, but then passively: done by adding material that slows down sound waves and also filters out the things you don't want to cancel. That with the position of the holes will give you the path length difference needed for the cancelation that results in the cardioid pattern.
Fig23EVSubArt.jpg
 

thewas

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Thank you for agreeing that you can have a small baffle and compensate for the baffle effect while not using a cardioid design, which is the discussion.
Not really, we are talking about two different things there. The 2.5 way construction just modifies the frequency and power response to get a flat direct sound compared to a 2 way construction of the same baffle and drivers where it has to be done in the crossover (by reducing the output above the baffle step), while a cardiodid changes the directivity in the bass and thus is taking the baffle step frequency lower. The 2.5 way does not change the baffle step frequency as this just depends on the baffle dimensions.
 

abdo123

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This is basically what happens, but then passively: done by adding material that slows down sound waves and also filters out the things you don't want to cancel. That with the position of the holes will give you the path length difference needed for the cancelation that results in the cardioid pattern.
Fig23EVSubArt.jpg

Wait i just realized that there were claims made that cardioid speakers don't exhibit (to the same degree) baffle step, If that's what we're discussing right now then i apologize because i actually disagree with that claim.

Cardioid pattern does little to actually flatten the baffle step on axis. It's just increasing the ratio of on-axis energy to sound power energy at a particular range of frequencies.
 

voodooless

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Wait i just realized that there were claims made that cardioid speakers don't exhibit (to the same degree) baffle step, If that's what we're discussing right now then i apologize because i actually disagree with that claim.
All of this is on top of the baffle step, which will not go away obviously. Essentially it works exactly because it radiates in all directions. If it would not do that, there would not be anything to cancel ;)
 
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