Klipsch RF 7 III

[superdeath1978]

Hi, I'm writing from Italy. I listened to the Kilpsch RF 7 III at a friend's house but I couldn't measure them because the DAC didn't want to work via USB that evening (it was cold and it remained in the car). I had an Asus DAC and an Umik1 with me... when listening to them, they seemed like speakers aimed exclusively at home theater for explosions and films, nothing to do with music for my tastes. They are very untamable with various amplifiers we tried (pre-Copland CTA 301 mk2 + Eam Lab Studio 362 - Marantz PM 82 - Harman Kardon 970 - Class D). Sometimes they seem to have phase rotations and it seems that the sound emphasizes the bass and then the treble, the horn is very directive in the boxy midrange, the 1.75" driver is crossed very low at 1300 Hz to ensure that the 10" go down low (first version of the RF 7 crossed at 2.2 Khz). Those who buy these speakers want an open and dynamic sound, not a closed and directive sound. I think these settings are going in the wrong direction. I have the first series RF 82s at home, they sound better and are more balanced for music, there are no disconnects and I don't think I hear any gaps in the crossover, especially during temporal events. I have been building speakers myself for some time and I think that the RF 82s + full-bodied sub can already do better than a pair of RF 7s.

 

[superdeath1978]

Here are the key points from my experience:

Timbral consistency and "disconnect": To my ear, the transition between the horn tweeter and the two large 25 cm woofers is uneven. I perceived a distinct misalignment, as if the highs and lows were traveling at different speeds. This "step" effect detracts from the naturalness of the reproduction.

Recessed midrange: Contrary to what I expected from a speaker of this size, I noticed a marked lack of presence in the midrange. Vocals and key instruments seemed closed and recessed, giving me an almost "muffled" sound.

Dynamics (The Toto Test): I used Toto's "I Won't Hold You Back" as a test. When the drums come in, the impact seemed completely unbalanced: the bass drum explodes in a swollen and dominant way, while the "slap" of the snare fades into the background. It almost gave the strange impression that someone had only turned up the volume on the low frequencies, losing the realism of the instrument.

Response to electronics: I tried several high-end amplifiers, but the speaker's basic character and that sense of misalignment remained completely unchanged.

In conclusion:
For those who appreciate them for their sound pressure or for home theater use, but for those like me who seek purely Hi-Fi listening—comprised of coherence, naturalness, and linearity in the midrange—these RF-7 IIIs should be listened to first and decided.


Obviously these are my very personal listening sensations.

 

[superdeath1978]

Update: I'll be measuring them again (this time with the DAC warmed up!)

Hi everyone again, a little update.

Since I was so intrigued (and as a DIYer, I can't leave doubts unanswered), I convinced my friend to do a second session. This time, I assure you, I won't leave the DAC freezing in the car!

I'll be back armed with my Umik-1, REW, and a fully functional setup. The goal is to put down on paper what my ears clearly perceived the other night. I want to see if the graphs confirm my auditory sensations.

Specifically, I'll focus on these measurements:

Frequency Response (on-axis and off-axis): I really want to see the size of the "gap" around 1300 Hz (the crossover point) and check the beaming of the two 10" pans before the horn enters.

Step Response / Impulse Response: This is the measurement I'm most interested in. I want to check the time misalignment and graphically see the delay between the compression driver's kick-in and the two heavy woofers' kick-in.

Spectrogram / Waterfall: To understand how much the cabinet resonates and how much the bass "dribbles," inflating the lower frequencies.

As soon as I have the REW files ready, I'll post the graphs below so we can analyze them together. Let's see if the instruments agree with my ears or if there's some modal interaction in the room that's making things even worse.

See you soon with the data in hand!

 

[Oddball]

This is the speaker that will really pump the bass, but everything else will be compromised compared to the others in that price range. One of the few speakers where one could say that no sub is needed provided adequate amps, but that still does not make it a good speaker. Never had them but spend lots of time with my neighbour at one point that had them. Have the lesser RP-8000 in my second setup and they are similarly blessed and flawed.

 

[dfuller]

My guess is they have the usual Klipsch problems of a bad crossover causing a big midrange hole and a general v shaped response.

 

[superdeath1978]

Questo diffusore offre bassi davvero potenti, ma tutto il resto ne risentirà rispetto agli altri nella stessa fascia di prezzo. È uno dei pochi diffusori per cui si potrebbe dire che non è necessario un subwoofer, a patto di avere amplificatori adeguati, ma ciò non lo rende comunque un buon diffusore. Non li ho mai posseduti personalmente, ma ho trascorso molto tempo a casa del mio vicino che li aveva. Ho il modello inferiore, l'RP-8000, nel mio secondo impianto e presentano pregi e difetti

I partially agree, I built my first 3-way speaker in 1995 and I can say that the subwoofer in the room is always useful, E. Geddes taught us a lot about this, the bass is there but it is punchy in a messy way for me.

 

[Talisman]

I own some rp280fs and I find them incredibly pleasant, I don't know how much they might differ in timbre compared to the rf7IIIs

 

[Tim Link]

Years ago I had the original RF-7s. I also thought they were weak in the midrange. I bypassed the built-in crossovers and went active. I tried and tried but couldn't make them work to my satisfaction. I think they're meant to be used in a HT setup with a dedicated center channel. Despite that, I had some very pleasant experiences using them in plain 2 channel configuration. Sometimes a peculiar sounding speaker works really well with a particular recording on a particular night when I'm in a particular state of mind.

 

[superdeath1978]

I own some rp280fs and I find them incredibly pleasant, I don't know how much they might differ in timbre compared to the rf7IIIs

Unfortunately I have never listened to them but I have listened to the previous models premiere series and they are better, much better for me

 

[superdeath1978]

Years ago I had the original RF-7s. I also thought they were weak in the midrange. I bypassed the built-in crossovers and went active. I tried and tried but couldn't make them work to my satisfaction. I think they're meant to be used in a HT setup with a dedicated center channel. Despite that, I had some very pleasant experiences using them in plain 2 channel configuration. Sometimes a peculiar sounding speaker works really well with a particular recording on a particular night when I'm in a particular state of mind.

This is the path I would like to take for a cousin of mine who has the same problem with the RP 8000 and he could do it himself with DSP and my help, but the RF 7 are speakers that cost a lot and I don't have the courage to get my hands on something that isn't mine ️

 

[Oddball]

I partially agree, I built my first 3-way speaker in 1995 and I can say that the subwoofer in the room is always useful, E. Geddes taught us a lot about this, the bass is there but it is punchy in a messy way for me.

I was not referring to what I am doing or my system. Just the fact that these are actually some of rare passive towers that can reach down under with confidence aka high SPL.

My RP 8000s were just pumping the bass like crazy, with smaller cabinets and 8” drivers.

 

[Dal1as]

I had rf-83s for years and loved them. Voiced much different than the rf7s and other Klipsch I have heard. Replaced them with Revel 208s which do have better midrange.

 

[superdeath1978]

Oddball, you did a great job. Let's say that the RF 7, knowing the physics of speakers, a 10" platter of that weight (I don't know the MMS, but it's certainly a heavy woofer) can't crossover well with that horn and so not even DSP or a new crossover can correct it, while with my cousin's RP 8000 it can. Did you move the crossover frequency a bit? Did you tri-amp or bi-amp with the DSP?

 

[Oddball]

This is from an older setup in a relatively smaller room (5.3x3.8x3.2 height, all in meters). It was LFE+Main setup with Audy and REW. So LR were full range and relatively close to MLP (2.2m). They were actually moving air that could have been felt at MLP. This is just a graph from Audy calibration screen. Don't have REWs any more as old setup. Curve was some +7 on the low end and -3db at the high end, but it was not as smooth as Audy "predicts".