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Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speaker Review

bobbooo

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As you said, if it's in their policy, it's lawful. And it could be rightful if your intention is, same way that killing a killer isn't necessarily bad, unless you live in Plato's Republic's ridiculous justice.


I'm more of a Kant man myself, so I follow the Categorical Imperative of Audiophilia:

"Act in such a way that you treat speakers, whether your own speakers or the speakers of any other, never merely as a means to an end, but always at the same time as an end. Oh, and people too."
 
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edechamps

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Can anyone hear anomalies listening to (pink noise? over) a single speaker in mono?

Yes. It's actually more revealing to listen in mono compared to stereo. See Toole's book, third edition, section 3.4, which cites this study.

Also pink noise is actually more revealing than most music. See Toole's book, third edition, section 3.5.1.7, which cites this study (whose results were already predicted by this one).
 

thewas

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Also see this (from http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2010/03/method-for-training-listeners-and.html)

1582367799528.png


With a bit of experience you can easily hear tonal problems with pink noise, a highly regarded German loudspeaker engineer once wrote that listening tests should start with pink noise, then you wouldn't need to continue on most loudspeaker after few seconds.
 
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tuga

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Yes. It's actually more revealing to listen in mono compared to stereo. See Toole's book, third edition, section 3.4, which cites this study.

Also pink noise is actually more revealing than most music. See Toole's book, third edition, section 3.5.1.7, which cites this study (whose results were already predicted by this one).

Thanks for the links.

I can understand how pink noise can work when checking differences in tonal balance, but not much else.
 

tuga

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Also see this (from http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2010/03/method-for-training-listeners-and.html)

View attachment 51244

With a bit of experience you can easily hear tonal problems with pink noise, a highly regarded German loudspeaker engineer once wrote that listening tests should start with pink noise, then you wouldn't need to continue on most loudspeaker after few seconds.

I see the benefits for tonal problems, but there's more to speaker performance than just tonal balance.
 

thewas

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I see the benefits for tonal problems, but there's more to speaker performance than just tonal balance.
Surely, but the tonal balance is the most important, if that is not ok (and you cannot or want to use EQ/DSP) than everything else doesn't matter.
 

Dimitri

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Yes. It's actually more revealing to listen in mono compared to stereo. See Toole's book, third edition, section 3.4, which cites this study.

Also pink noise is actually more revealing than most music. See Toole's book, third edition, section 3.5.1.7, which cites this study (whose results were already predicted by this one).

Before I knew what "pink noise" is, I used to listen to the static between FM stations. Got wierd looks from friends and puzzeld the occasional HiFi store salesman. A few decades later I come to find out that this is "a thing".
 

tuga

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what else is there that isn't speaker positioning and room dynamics?

Things that one can assess by listening like dynamic ceiling, resolution at low volumes, cabinet and driver resonances, bass alignment...
 

napilopez

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Not with a single speaker, I presume.

Can still be surprisingly useful actually. The speakers that do best in blind test tend to not reveal themselves as a small point source in mono listening. You'd think you wouldn't be able to assess spatial qualities from mono yet you can. But yeah, I don't know if I'd say say pink noise is the ideal for this :)
 

DSJR

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Great to read all this but back to the basics here - amazing how 'we' judge so critically what are basically very cheap speakers at the end of the day. I heard some related models some years back - could have been a floor standing version with copper finish bass drivers and I took it for granted the way the highs could all but strip paint with their 'assertive' qualities as this seems to be expected of them I gather. In fairness though to the top speaker model they make, I heard some post 2000 production Klipschorns driven by a contemporary Quad system and found them delightful in the particular room they were in, set slightly too far apart by conventional thinking and surprisingly even tempered. Any slight 'nasality' was definitely no worse at all than say, the revered Quad '57' speakers and very easy to hear straight through and adjust to as indeed said Quads are (Quad 57's would be a nightmare to measure properly and get any sense out of I suspect).
 

GabrielZM

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amirm

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Things that one can assess by listening like dynamic ceiling, resolution at low volumes, cabinet and driver resonances, bass alignment...
If driver & cabinet resonances are high enough to be audible, they show up readily in frequency response measurements.
 

tuga

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If driver & cabinet resonances are high enough to be audible, they show up readily in frequency response measurements.

Indeed. But we were discussing listening assessment.
 

QMuse

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Indeed. But we were discussing listening assessment.

Point here was when you are hearing a peak in frequency response you don't know if it is caused by cabinet/driver resonance or something else, you just hear a peak.
 

TimF

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Do we all grow up calibrating our hearing/perception to the same environment. Perhaps farm kids face an environment different enough to be significant from central city kids, or suburban kids. We do in some manner standardize and synchronize--that is what I think you mean when you write "...people who incorrectly think everyone's taste in speakers is different...."
 
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