• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speaker Review

Rockfella

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
213
Likes
116
Location
Gurgaon. India.
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
33,057
Likes
112,060
Location
Seattle Area
Thread Starter #225
Well Q Acoustics have a 30 day risk-free trial on their speakers, so you could just return them for a refund right after measuring ;)
As a policy, I don't do that. I get use out of them by measuring and it would not be right to then return them for free.

Members can do that that though if measurements don't match the company advertising.
 

Johnb

Active Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
137
Likes
120
Location
San Francisco, CA
As a policy, I don't do that. I get use out of them by measuring and it would not be right to then return them for free.

Members can do that that though if measurements don't match the company advertising.
Exactly. I have seen so many forum posts like "I ordered 3 camcorders to test, and I will keep one and send back the others..." It makes me wonder what happened to the common morality. Returned items cannot be re-sold as new, or for the new price. It is stealing just as sure as swiping something at the 7-11
 

gvl

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Messages
2,506
Likes
2,514
Location
SoCal
These returns are expected and factored in the business expenses. Don't feel sorry for Costco. Not that I approve it.
 

Hiten

Active Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
157
Likes
160
Location
India
Lets not bother about if audition review should be done before or after as focus is primarily on equipment measurements. Also amirm is giving his time, money and effort, Thanks very much for that. I am not buying anything but have learnt a lot.
Respect and kudos to amirm and others. Keep up the good work for the community and all the best in life.

Best Regards
 

bobbooo

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,479
Likes
1,970
As a policy, I don't do that. I get use out of them by measuring and it would not be right to then return them for free.

Members can do that that though if measurements don't match the company advertising.
That's understandable, I hadn't considered that you would actually benefit from them by gaining useful measurements for your database. Who knows though, maybe you would want to keep them ;) They have had pretty much universal acclaim after all - not just on YouTube etc. but 'serious' review publications as well (e.g. here). It would be interesting to see if all that praise is well founded. The 3020 model are $229 a pair on Amazon right now if you wanted to pick them up. Here are Sound and Vision's 'quasi-anechoic' measurements of Q Acoustics' 5.1 system:



The blue curve is the sub, green center, purple 3010 satellites (cheaper version of the 3020 with a smaller 4-inch woofer, so presumably the 3020 would perform better).
 
Last edited:

Haint

Active Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
214
Likes
238
Exactly. I have seen so many forum posts like "I ordered 3 camcorders to test, and I will keep one and send back the others..." It makes me wonder what happened to the common morality. Returned items cannot be re-sold as new, or for the new price. It is stealing just as sure as swiping something at the 7-11
Good thing the moral bastions of Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Apple et. al have folks like you looking out for non-fraudulent return bandits so they can continue to dodge hundreds of billions in taxes, pay their employees a homeless wage, charge you triple/quadruple digit mark up, and enact schemes/policies designed to screws you over and bleed you dry. Nope, the immoral party here is Joe Plumber, to whom $500 is probably a significant amount of money, buying 2 camcorders with the intent of returning 1.
 

Wombat

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
6,726
Likes
6,144
Location
Australia
Good thing the moral bastions of Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Apple et. al have folks like you looking out for non-fraudulent return bandits so they can continue to dodge hundreds of billions in taxes, pay their employees a homeless wage, charge you triple/quadruple digit mark up, and enact schemes/policies designed to screws you over and bleed you dry. Nope, the immoral party here is Joe Plumber, to whom $500 is probably a significant amount of money, buying 2 camcorders with the intent of returning 1.
If a no obligation return policy is stated then it can be used. However your post infers that 'two wrongs make it right'. That is morally wrong.
headbang.gif
 

Sancus

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
1,377
Likes
3,174
Location
Canada
Exactly. I have seen so many forum posts like "I ordered 3 camcorders to test, and I will keep one and send back the others..." It makes me wonder what happened to the common morality. Returned items cannot be re-sold as new, or for the new price. It is stealing just as sure as swiping something at the 7-11
Can't say I agree with this. I trust businesses to know their business. I don't need to try to protect the billion-dollar corp from their own policies. Amazon knows that by making returns straightforward and simple, people will buy from them when they otherwise wouldn't. That's how they get thousands of dollars of business from me each year. Sometimes I buy a couple of computer mice, and return the one I liked less. If I couldn't do that, I would buy from somebody else instead.

In Amir's case it's a bit different because he is purchasing many speakers explicitly for testing. I agree it's unacceptable if you're buying and returning a large number of things. Amazon does too. If you abuse their return policy and return a significant percentage of your total spend, they will warn you and eventually suspend your account.

It's strange to accuse the average consumer of theft for using a company's own policies. Like everything else, if you're reasonable it's not an issue. Not everyone is reasonable.
 

q3cpma

Major Contributor
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
2,665
Likes
3,437
Location
France
Good thing the moral bastions of Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Apple et. al have folks like you looking out for non-fraudulent return bandits so they can continue to dodge hundreds of billions in taxes, pay their employees a homeless wage, charge you triple/quadruple digit mark up, and enact schemes/policies designed to screws you over and bleed you dry. Nope, the immoral party here is Joe Plumber, to whom $500 is probably a significant amount of money, buying 2 camcorders with the intent of returning 1.
> If I swindle the swindler, I'm not a swindler myself!
That's not how logic works. Even if it might be rightful/lawful swindling; just don't go and try to twist words as a a shortcut, you damage your position.
 

Haint

Active Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
214
Likes
238
If a no obligation return policy is stated then it can be used. However your post infers that 'two wrongs make it right'. That is morally wrong. View attachment 51234
If you're going to point out the spec, make sure there's not plank in the eye of the party you're defending. Every Society has a sliding scale for transgressions. Wrongs are not all equal or black and white in the real world. Even if you choose to believe a non-fraudulent return is "wrong" (it's not) I have no issue with reasonable acts of Karma/Comeuppance when they're against corrupt systems. In some cases, 2 wrongs do indeed make a right.
 
Last edited:

Wombat

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
6,726
Likes
6,144
Location
Australia
> If I swindle the swindler, I'm not a swindler myself!
That's not how logic works. Even if it might be rightful/lawful swindling; just don't go and try to twist words as a a shortcut, you damage your position.
Rightful/lawful swindling? Pull the other leg.
dancingsmilies.gif
 

bobbooo

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,479
Likes
1,970
If a no obligation return policy is stated then it can be used. However your post infers that 'two wrongs make it right'. That is morally wrong. View attachment 51234
Yep, in this particular case, Q Acoustics specifically describe their policy on their homepage as a "30 Day Risk Free Trial" as well, so they are fully expecting you to return the speakers if you don't like them. I can see now how Amir returning them after using them for measurements wouldn't be quite right though, and is not what their generous policy was intended for.
 
Last edited:

Wombat

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
6,726
Likes
6,144
Location
Australia
As you said, if it's in their policy, it's lawful. And it could be rightful if your intention is, same way that killing a killer isn't necessarily bad, unless you live in Plato's Republic's ridiculous justice.
Lynch mob mentality was 'rightful' by its proponents and perpetrators. Ugh.
 
Top Bottom