Klippel In-Situ measurement?

[Randolf]

Hi,

I just came across the Klippel In-Situ measurement:

In-Situ Compensation (ISC)

www.klippel.de

https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/klippel/Bilder/Our_Products/R-D_System/PDF/S62_In_Situ_Room_Compensation.pdf

It sounds like a (cheap?) way to do in room on axis measurements by calculating a compensation function for a given room setup based on a reference measurement (e.g. from a Klippel NFS or Anechoic chamber) of the same loudspeaker. Does anybody have experience with that? If so I would have a bunch of questions:

1. What Klippel hard- and software is exactly required (maybe no hardware at all if one already has some measurement gear)?
2. When the compensation function is calculated (e.g. based a Klippel NFS measurement from Erin or Amir and my own measurement of the same speaker) can it be applied to
   1. Off axsis measurments of the same speaker by placing the speaker on a rotary table?
   2. Measurement of other speakers (I guess it at least needs be positioned as similar as possible to the reference speaker)?

If it is cheap enough for DYI (hardware, software, some reference speaker Erin or Amir had measured) and the measurement of other speakers is possible it could be very interesting if it provides more accurate measurement results than the usal gated + nearfield woofer and port measurement, If it is also applicable to off axis measurements on a rotaray table one can even generate low resultion spinoramas using VituixCAD with some manual effort.

 

[rdenney]

The reference response is the tricky bit. That has to be done by someone with the full Near Field Scanner kit.

What do we learn with this? It seems to me that understanding the room issues is the point of measuring in the room. If I have equalized my speakers based on anechoic data (however measured or derived) to be flat, then anything not flat in an REW measurement is room effect that can be addressed by making physical revisions. Filtering out those effects so I can see what the anechoic measurements already showed doesn't seem particularly useful to me.

Of course, it's academic--the in-situ measurement only requires the DB-LAB software that Klippel sells, which is only available as part of some scanner package, a myriad of which are shown on their price list. Waaaay too many digits for mortals like me.

Rick "not sure of the use case" Denney

 

[bert stoltenborg]

Jeezz guys, you can compensate a louzy mic, you can compensate a constant noise in a recording, in the MLSSA sucks discussion one of the speaker manufacturers who owns The Klipper already said he uses MLSSA a lot because you can easely compensate for the room influence, not having to wait for a day for the Klipper to cum..

 

[Randolf]

Of course, it's academic--the in-situ measurement only requires the DB-LAB software that Klippel sells, which is only available as part of some scanner package, a myriad of which are shown on their price list. Waaaay too many digits for mortals like me.

Hmm, the Klippel pricelist really confuses me. On https://www.klippel.de/products/rd-system/product-brochure-price-lists.html in
https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/kl...PPEL Analyzer System_Example Packages_NFS.pdf I found:

If that is really all one needs to use Klippel ISC (+a reference NFS measurement and usual measurement gear) than it's something serious DIYs may consider worth it.

 

[amirm]

If that is really all one needs to use Klippel ISC (+a reference NFS measurement and usual measurement gear) than it's something serious DIYs may consider worth it.

That is an add-on optional software module. You must own the prerequisite hardware and software license first, before getting that. That will set you back a ton of money.

 

[rdenney]

That is an add-on optional software module. You must own the prerequisite hardware and software license first, before getting that. That will set you back a ton of money.

Thanks, Amir, as I suspected.

Rick "stuck with REW, which isn't actually a bad thing" Denney

 

[amirm]

It got me too. When I first inquired about Klippel NFS, I thought it "only" cost $35K!!! It is very nice that they publish their prices but as noted, figuring out the true cost is very difficult.

 

[kyuu]

Seems like generally you can just stick to using in-room measurements to correct below Schroeder and use anechoic measurements from the likes of Amir or Erin if you want to correct above Schroeder, if you don't have the cash for this.

 

[rdenney]

Seems like generally you can just stick to using in-room measurements to correct below Schroeder and use anechoic measurements from the likes of Amir or Erin if you want to correct above Schroeder, if you don't have the cash for this.

That was my thinking, hence why I was wondering about the use case. If this is just an add-on for a complete NFS system, what's the point? Maybe if one needed to make anechoic measurements on location of speakers that could not be moved to or fit inside the robot envelope of the regular NFS hardware, but that seems interesting only to a subset of the current user base, not something that could help with integrating speakers into an existing room.

Rick "a disinterested observer" Denney

 

[krabapple]

Jeezz guys, you can compensate a louzy mic, you can compensate a constant noise in a recording, in the MLSSA sucks discussion one of the speaker manufacturers who owns The Klipper already said he uses MLSSA a lot because you can easely compensate for the room influence, not having to wait for a day for the Klipper to cum..

worst porn flick ever

 

[amirm]

If this is just an add-on for a complete NFS system, what's the point?

Once you have computed the anechoic response, then it lets you apply it to one-off in-room measurements to correct the room impact. Erin does this for his distortion measurements. I did the same at the start but found out that in my room, the correction is small. And potential for mistakes, high. So i don't bother. But that it what it is for, correcting for in-room distortion measurements on Klippel.

 

[3125b]

It got me too. When I first inquired about Klippel NFS, I thought it "only" cost $35K!!!

May I ask how much the whole setup you use cost?

 

[amirm]

May I ask how much the whole setup you use cost?

Without today's tarrif, it was 105,000 euros. Plus import cost, shipping, etc. I have heard the cost today is near $150k.