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KLIPPEL CONTROLLED SOUND (KCS)

skankhobag

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Just followed a link to the Klippel site and did some reading on their new tech, Klippel Controlled Sound.

It’s for integrated speaker systems like smart speakers, smart phones, internal computer & TV speakers, etc. It also mentions that it can be used in studio monitors and PA speakers so we’re talking any speaker that can incorporate DSP.

It seems geared toward woofers so it’s similar to servo systems used for subs, but it uses a feed-forward system rather than the feedback system of servos. It also reduces distortion at much higher frequencies than a servo system.

The speaker being controlled has to be analyzed so their algorithm can then act upon it by monitoring the music and mixing in a correction audio signal to it. There is no special wiring. It covers distortion, excursion, amplifier power and much more.

The other aspect is that it does monitor the signal coming back from the speaker driver and uses that keep it operating at its ideal specifications even as it ages.

It’s pretty heady stuff.

There were a few very dry, lab videos showing the system at work. The one where they demonstrate a 6” woofer being abused by 22Hz & 440 Hz sine tones is amazing. That poor little driver was as close as you can get to destroying it without it exploding.

The distortion was so high and so bad that I could easily hear it through the speakers on my phone. They also showed it on a RTA.

Switching in the system reduced both the THD and IMD by 20dB!

Think about that: you can drive a speaker to its maximum level with vanishingly low distortion and never burn it out.

Bottom line: this tech is going to do to passive speakers and dumb power amps what the passenger jet did to transcontinental ocean travel.

I guess there will be some speaker manufacturers that have passive mid/tweeter sections for the dimwitted, don’t be surprised if all of the best speakers are fully active in 10 to 15 years.

25 years ago, I was producing and mixing a demo project for a couple singers. I was using Paradigm actives (LCR-450’s/Servo 15 subs). The system ran me around $4k and was specced +/-1dB, 20-20k.

The artists wanted to know how good my system was so I took them to HiFi House and played my mixes on Meridian active DSP8000’s (at that time, around $47k and also ruler flat).

Both systems being almost perfectly flat in FR, they sounded almost identical with two exceptions:
• My room sounded better because it was larger and had better acoustic treatment.

• At true concert level (towards 110dB), the mains in my system started to run out of power and sounded a little harsh as the protection circuits kicked in. The DSP8000’s sounded just fine at that level. They were cruising.

At any sane volume, there was almost no perceptible difference between the two. We listened to their 5 songs for about 4 hours (my place/HiFi House/my place again) and everyone reached that same conclusion.

Where these serious review sessions? No, but I needed to school the clients that my system was virtually as good as actives that were 11 times the price.

That day showed me how fantastic active speakers can be. I continue to be somewhat amazed that passive speakers are still so revered in HiFi circles. It just doesn’t make any sense given that passives are obsolete as main studio monitors, but that’s a whole other subject.

Seeing what KCS can do, I can now foresee a day when speakers of every kind will be active.
 
… and Klippel is providing it.

Just followed a link to the Klippel site and did some reading on their new tech, Klippel Controlled Sound.

It’s for integrated speaker systems like smart speakers, smart phones, internal computer & TV speakers, etc. It also mentions that it can be used in studio monitors and PA speakers so we’re talking any speaker that can incorporate DSP.

It seems geared toward woofers so it’s similar to servo systems used for subs, but it uses a feed-forward system rather than the feedback system of servos. It also reduces distortion at much higher frequencies than a servo system.

The speaker being controlled has to be analyzed so their algorithm can then act upon it by monitoring the music and mixing in a correction audio signal. There is no special wiring. It covers distortion, excursion, amplifier power and much more.

The other aspect is that it does monitor the signal coming back from the speaker driver and uses that to keep it operating at its ideal specifications even as it ages.

It’s pretty heady stuff.

There were a few very dry, lab videos showing the system at work. The one where they demonstrate a 6” woofer being abused by 22Hz & 440 Hz sine tones is amazing. That poor little driver was as close as you can get to destroying it without it exploding.

The distortion was so high and so bad that I could easily hear it through the speakers on my phone. They also showed it on a RTA.

Switching in the system reduced both the THD and IMD by 20dB!

Think about that: you can drive a speaker to its maximum level with vanishingly low distortion and never burn it out.

Bottom line: this tech is going to do to passive speakers and dumb power amps what the passenger jet did to transcontinental ocean travel.

I guess there will be some speaker manufacturers that have passive mid/tweeter sections for the dimwitted, but don’t be surprised if all of the best speakers are fully active in 10 to 15 years.

25 years ago, I was producing and mixing a demo project for a couple singers. I was using Paradigm actives (LCR-450’s/Servo 15 subs). The system ran me around $4k and was specced +/-1dB, 20-20k.

The artists wanted to know how good my system was so I took them to HiFi House and played my mixes on Meridian active DSP8000’s (at that time, around $47k and also ruler flat).

Both systems being almost perfectly flat in FR, they sounded almost identical with two exceptions:
• My room sounded better because it was larger and had better acoustic treatment.

• At true concert level (towards 110dB), the mains in my system started to run out of power and sounded a little harsh as the protection circuits kicked in. The DSP8000’s sounded just fine at that level. They were cruising.

At any sane volume, though, there was almost no perceptible difference between the two. We listened to their 5 songs repeatedly for about 4 hours (my place/HiFi House/my place again) and everyone reached that same conclusion.

Where these serious review sessions? No, but I needed to school the clients that my system was virtually as good as actives that were 11 times the price.

That day showed me how fantastic active speakers can be. I continue to be somewhat amazed that passive speakers are still so revered in HiFi circles. It just doesn’t make any sense given that passives are obsolete as main studio monitors, but that’s a whole other subject.

Seeing what KCS can do, I can now foresee a day when speakers of every kind will be active.
 
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Interesting,

Consider combining this thread with the thread you started earlier today.....

 
Interesting stuff coming out of Klippel that's for sure. I find it odd that the OP is using it as yet another herald for the end of passive speaker design when Klippel seems to quite clearly state that this technology does not require an active speaker design to work.
 
Interesting stuff coming out of Klippel that's for sure. I find it odd that the OP is using it as yet another herald for the end of passive speaker design when Klippel seems to quite clearly state that this technology does not require an active speaker design to work.
How precisely is anyone going to incorporate this system with a passive speaker given the amount of DSP and digital analysis needed to be incorporated into the signal chain?
 
How precisely is anyone going to incorporate this system with a passive speaker given the amount of DSP and digital analysis needed to be incorporated into the signal chain?
Um, same as with DSP applied to any other passive speaker system.
 
Um, same as with DSP applied to any other passive speaker system.
You didn’t read enough about the system.

It not only runs the feed forward correction, but also corrects any nonlinearities from the speaker/amp interface. It also monitors back EMF from the driver so that it can correct changes in the driver suspension compliance as it ages.

Adding all of this to a passive speaker means that these corrections will also be effecting the midrange driver up the line since we’re talking about a passive speaker.

The isn’t like room correction where you hook it up, run some tests and your good.

It’s an active system that requires an amplifier to be integrated into it so that the power can be precisely controlled. Then the amp can drive the individual driver exactly to, but not beyond its limits. That’s demonstrated in the video.

Initial uses specified are phone, computer and TV speakers so I imagine the thought is integrating the processing into a unified chip that includes amplification.
 
Then the amp can drive the individual driver exactly to, but not beyond its limits.
It's always interesting to learn about new tech.

But driving the individual driver to exactly its limits is really bad - in general. First, what are the limits and second, obviously driving it more gently will decrease distortion and thus improve the experience. This goes back to system design and leaving the headroom in the system so you don't drive it to the tilt. Or I might be wrong?
 
It’s limit, I’m assuming would be to it Xmax (linear excursion limit), not its physical excursion limit which would stress the driver’s suspension.

Also, since this is an algorithmically controlled system, factoring in the long term power handling would be part of the equation.

The system will, again, drive it to its limit, but not beyond.

The other aspect is that the controller has active distortion cancellation which reduces both THD and IMD by 20dB or more.

So, yeah, you’re mistaken, but don’t sweat it. The subject matter is a bit difficult to wrap head around at first since it uses both feedforward and feedback processing.

If you haven’t seen it yet, this video is rather amazing. Also, the 6 inch driver is being driven to its limit.


Luckily, this isn’t the only thing Klippel does so it stands a good chance of making it into actual products, though most likely not any time soon.
 
It’s limit, I’m assuming would be to it Xmax (linear excursion limit), not its physical excursion limit which would stress the driver’s suspension.

Also, since this is an algorithmically controlled system, factoring in the long term power handling would be part of the equation.

The system will, again, drive it to its limit, but not beyond.

The other aspect is that the controller has active distortion cancellation which reduces both THD and IMD by 20dB or more.

So, yeah, you’re mistaken, but don’t sweat it. The subject matter is a bit difficult to wrap head around at first since it uses both feedforward and feedback processing.

If you haven’t seen it yet, this video is rather amazing. Also, the 6 inch driver is being driven to its limit.


Luckily, this isn’t the only thing Klippel does so it stands a good chance of making it into actual products, though most likely not any time soon.
Actually the video is helpful. Perhaps one day we will see this in use either as a stand alone solution or incorporated in some other room correction systems. Do more with less is definitely a good proposition.
 
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Actually the video is helpful. Perhaps one day we will see this in use either as a stand alone solution or incorporated in some other room correction systems. Do more with less is definitely a good proposition.
This can’t be used like Dirac or DEQX. The controller, amp and speaker are a closed system. It can’t work as an add-on.
 
This can’t be used like Dirac or DEQX. The controller, amp and speaker are a closed system. It can’t work as an add-on.
Understood you need active speakers for this, so was thinking integration into some of the existing active speakers and DSPs.
 
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