Kimber KS 1036 Silver RCA Cable Review

[Fergy]

They're also trained to be alert, open-minded listeners.

Doctors open minded? That's a good one!

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Certainly not true when it comes to earphones.

The shape of the ear is a significant influence and is not a "solved and fully understood process ".

Huh? Trying to develop the perfect earphone is a different discussion. It doesn't change the understanding we have of how ears work, it just introduces a new problem of "how do I get the perfect reproduction of sound this close to an ear knowing shape plays a significant role in sound detection and no two people have the same shape/fit"

The physiology and anatomy of how ears work is still the same.

 

[BlueTunes]

Huh? Trying to develop the perfect earphone is a different discussion. It doesn't change the understanding we have of how ears work, it just introduces a new problem of "how do I get the perfect reproduction of sound this close to an ear knowing shape plays a significant role in sound detection and no two people have the same shape/fit"

The physiology and anatomy of how ears work is still the same.

The point is, audio reception is personal and influenced by external factors so isn't an absolute.
What I hear won't be the same as what you hear despite both recieving the same signal.

That the signal is or isn't an absolute isn't in question.

Play a song in a room made to appear "hard and bright" and that is likely what the listener will hear and vice versa because we are programmed by evolution to be that way. It's the "6th sense" if you will.
So if you are drawn to an "organic and mellow sound signature " over a "hard and accurate " one, you'll likely be drawn to devices that would reinforce that perception and your perception would be set to that.

You effectively hear what you want to hear.

To me, the two things (objective and subjective) can be true at the same time and I am a hard advocate of the factual side of audio reproduction and testing.

I just think you can hear things in many different ways....

 

[Buckeye Amps]

The point is, audio reception is personal and influenced by external factors so isn't an absolute.
What I hear won't be the same as what you hear despite both recieving the same signal.

Agreed, which is why I addressed that very fact as well.

The overarching point is that sound and how ears work to physically pickup and pass on sound to the brain is understood. Which means we know from measurements what will and won't affect the sound audibly.

The differences people claim to hear between two identically measured things is due entirely to non-physical differences in the actual stimuli. This is where biases, psychology, psychoacoustics, etc come into play. Which, again, has nothing to do with any actual difference in the sound itself.

 

[solderdude]

That however is the perception part.

Trouble starts when when people start to attribute all kinds of literally 'imagined' effects cables and electronic components (that do not have an ability to change wave-forms) are supposed to have.
This is electronics, has nothing to do with perception and is engineering.

 

[BlueTunes]

That however is the perception part.

Trouble starts when when people start to attribute all kinds of literally 'imagined' effects cables and electronic components (that do not have an ability to change wave-forms) are supposed to have.
This is electronics, has nothing to do with perception and is engineering.

Correct, but.

(I'm being a stick in the mud here purposely to tease the point out, not to troll as some may suggest.."

It is the case that these components are sold as having certain characteristics. "Organic, immediate, Resolving " etc.

If you tell the listener this is what happens, then that is what the perception would be regardless of the truth (ie nothing changes).

So, the claim becomes true. Not by action but by perception.

This happens everywhere in our life tbh.

This is why the snake oil is sold without measurements because those cannot reinforce the perception.

Yes, ASR is only concerned with the measurable and absolute but that's not what is being sold or bought here.

The buyer is buying perception. The seller is obliging.

The cable is just the conduit between the two parties.

 

[JoeHTGuy]

So, as an example… someone on the far right (ears only) comes to a far left (measurements only) person and claims that they get better bass from their full range system with cable A. The far right would say it all depends on your system. When you discuss the topic with them, it’s very hard to convince them otherwise when your system/room is not the same, or a couple monitors in a large room. You will get caught in an infinite loop of mud slinging.

Instead, simply have them do a blind test in their system. If they don’t notice a difference, and argue otherwise, then they are wrong in any form of an ensuing argument. However, if they do notice a difference, then you have to concede there is possibly something else in play.

It’s not about what you “know” is right or wrong, it’s about getting the other side to understand within their sphere of understanding.

 

[solderdude]

Correct, but.

(I'm being a stick in the mud here purposely to tease the point out, not to troll as some may suggest.."

It is the case that these components are sold as having certain characteristics. "Organic, immediate, Resolving " etc.

Yes, being sold as that. Sadly that does not make it real and depends on perception to do its work not on actual change due to properties of the component.

If you tell the listener this is what happens, then that is what the perception would be regardless of the truth (ie nothing changes).

Absolutely. That's how the brain works and in audio this is a blessing for the sellers.

So, the claim becomes true. Not by action but by perception.

This happens everywhere in our life tbh.

Yes it does.

This is why the snake oil is sold without measurements because those cannot reinforce the perception.

Yes, ASR is only concerned with the measurable and absolute but that's not what is being sold or bought here.

The buyer is buying perception. The seller is obliging.

They are not buying perception... they are buying an 'insurance' and the brain makes it come true.

The cable is just the conduit between the two parties.

Nah, just a conduit for the electrical signal.
The written and spoken word in the advertising (and accompanying reviews) is the conduit between the seller and buyer. The brain of the buyer decides to fork out the money they believe the cable is worth it. They won't be disappointed by their own brain.
That brain alters the perception of the actual sound waves hitting the ear/body and reconstructs 'something'.

 

[solderdude]

So, as an example… someone on the far right (ears only) comes to a far left (measurements only) person and claims that they get better bass from their full range system with cable A. The far right would say it all depends on your system. When you discuss the topic with them, it’s very hard to convince them otherwise when your system/room is not the same, or a couple monitors in a large room. You will get caught in an infinite loop of mud slinging.

Instead, simply have them do a blind test in their system. If they don’t notice a difference, and argue otherwise, then they are wrong in any form of an ensuing argument. However, if they do notice a difference, then you have to concede there is possibly something else in play.

ONLY if the difference can be shown to exist in a well performed blind test.
This is exactly the reason why no 'high-end' cable manufacturer does that.

It’s not about what you “know” is right or wrong, it’s about getting the other side to understand within their sphere of understanding.

The problem is there can never be understanding. Even when a blind test showed there was no different.
I have a 2 audiophile friends who I showed that there were no differences (they could not detect differences when switching blind) but till this day still tell everyone (incl. me) they can hear differences between silver and copper cables.

Someone that is already convinced usually can't be convinced otherwise... even when all the evidence points that way.
That's what religion is based on and some audiophiles certainly believe a lot of things.
They justify with 'we might not be able to measure everything' and 'the human hearing is so different' and 'we do not know how the brain works' etc.

 

[JoeHTGuy]

ONLY if the difference can be shown to exist in a well performed blind test.
This is exactly the reason why no 'high-end' cable manufacturer does that.


The problem is there can never be understanding. Even when a blind test showed there was no different.
I have a 2 audiophile friends who I showed that there were no differences (they could not detect differences when switching blind) but till this day still tell everyone (incl. me) they can hear differences between silver and copper cables.

Someone that is already convinced usually can't be convinced otherwise... even when all the evidence points that way.
That's what religion is based on and some audiophiles certainly believe a lot of things.
They justify with 'we might not be able to measure everything' and 'the human hearing is so different' and 'we do not know how the brain works' etc.

Then they are wrong. However, at least they were willing to subject themselves to the test.

Refusing to do a blind test is something totally different. To have a meaningful debate with that same crowd without being willing to listen in a blind test (because you know you are right) doesn’t work… and to be honest is not being fair to the other side.

 

[Mart68]

If you tell the listener this is what happens, then that is what the perception would be regardless of the truth (ie nothing changes).

So, the claim becomes true. Not by action but by perception.

Well it might be true, not everyone will have that experience every time.

Even if it does the real issue is that it's a one time hit. First time you plug it in and listen you hear the improvement. Next time you sit down for a listen it's just taken for granted that you have new improved sound. Then it's not long before you're looking for the next plug n play 'upgrade' which will also be a one time hit.

When you know nothing in 'objective reality' has really changed that starts to feel like an expensive and pointless process.

 

[solderdude]

Then they are wrong. However, at least they were willing to subject themselves to the test.

Refusing to do a blind test is something totally different. To have a meaningful debate with that same crowd without being willing to listen in a blind test (because you know you are right) doesn’t work… and to be honest is not being fair to the other side.

It's like trying to convince a religious person their God and the whole story around it is not real.
I have no desire to try to convince those folks. Still one can find people (they sometimes come at the door) to try to convince me (their) God is real.

The same is true for the audio-religion. I can show them with a simple test that what they think they can they actually can't.
After that they invent all kinds of excuses (the test was rigged, the stress was too high and whatnot) why they could not at that moment but are able to.

The religious people coming at the door or on the street trying to hand out folders or talk to you can be compared to the individuals that come on ASR telling how they can clearly hear this and that and measurements don't say much etc.
Eventually they leave (shouting and kicking or silently) and complain elsewhere how stupid 'ASR' is and that they only look at plots and numbers.

The (high-end) audio business depends and thrives on this. People WANT to believe. Their ears tell them they are 'right' and others must not have half decent hearing.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Then they are wrong. However, at least they were willing to subject themselves to the test.

Refusing to do a blind test is something totally different. To have a meaningful debate with that same crowd without being willing to listen in a blind test (because you know you are right) doesn’t work… and to be honest is not being fair to the other side.

The onus of proof resides with the ones making unsubstantiated claims. You should be emailing AQ, Kimber, et al to show proof.

 

[solderdude]

The onus of proof resides with the ones making unsubstantiated claims. You should be emailing AQ, Kimber, et al to show proof.

All you would be getting is testimonials ... so many people can't be wrong or delusional

 

[Buckeye Amps]

All you would be getting is testimonials ... so many people can't be wrong or delusional

Or a professional review filled with 600 unique adjectives all describing the sound.

 

[teched58]

You guys and your electrical engineering; all knowledge and no feeling. I'm going to get those Kimbers -- but the 2 meters for $8,080 cause I need the extra length for the setup in my studio apartment. And I am going to be pairing it the VERY BEST. The Carver Crimson 275. And to top it off -- wait for it -- The Tekton 2-10 Perfect Set. Yes, that's what E. Alexander Doctor of Speaker Design has named the product. The 2-10 Perfect Set. Cause who doesn't like a perfect set? I'm certainly a big fan.

 

[wadude]

The cables as jewelry arguement is weird to me because who spends thousands on jewelry they only keep in back of a stereo cabinet? If I had thousands spent in cables I would have all my equipment facing the wall so I could see the fancy cables doing their magic.

Agreed, but at the same time enjoy having cables flopping around doing their magic. If you got’em, flaunt ‘em, that’s my motto.

 

[solderdude]

You guys and your electrical engineering; all knowledge and no feeling. I'm going to get those Kimbers -- but the 2 meters for $8,080 cause I need the extra length for the setup in my studio apartment. And I am going to be pairing it the VERY BEST. The Carver Crimson 275. And to top it off -- wait for it -- The Tekton 2-10 Perfect Set. Yes, that's what E. Alexander Doctor of Speaker Design has named the product. The 2-10 Perfect Set. Cause who doesn't like a perfect set? I'm certainly a big fan.

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Did you deliberately or conveniently forget to mention your TotalDAC d1-six?
I assume that is the one the 2m kabel is going to be used to connect it with your fabulous amp.

 

[BlueTunes]

Did you deliberately or conveniently forget to mention your TotalDAC d1-six?
I assume that is the one the 2m kabel is going to be used to connect it with your fabulous amp.

Crikey

 

[Mart68]

Crikey