Kimber KS 1036 Silver RCA Cable Review

[IngMishael]

What bothered mostly was the "she needed some cash..." Comment.

Marriage is partnership eh?

nah I am not bothered by that. That man squandered funds. She might as well sell the things she will never use. Also yeah marriage is a partnership and her partner died and left stuff she doesn't need. Good on her for getting rid of them

 

[BlueTunes]

nah I am not bothered by that. That man squandered funds. She might as well sell the things she will never use. Also yeah marriage is a partnership and her partner died and left stuff she doesn't need. Good on her for getting rid of them

Kinda where I was going tbh.

 

[Beave]

The Earth was known to be flat for thousands of years. There are literally countless examples of known fact that are constantly being overturned with new knowledge.

Known by whom to be flat? The Greeks not only knew it was spherical 200 years BC, but also they had shockingly good estimates of its size.

The ones who thought it flat were the ones ignorant of science.

 

[LugsyTL47]

The Earth was known to be flat for thousands of years. There are literally countless examples of known fact that are constantly being overturned with new knowledge.

So, if 2 cables were randomly blind tested, and several people noticed a difference every time… but they measured exactly the same… what then? BTW.. I’m not saying measurements are bad. I’m just saying that the ear is also a measurement device, and can’t be totally discounted.

Even better is when a single cable (or any device) is randomly blind tested twice, and several people notice a difference every time… and of course measure exactly the same. It doesn’t matter what the ear hears, it’s what the brain between the ears “thinks” it hears.

 

[MarkS]

It doesn’t matter what the ear hears, it’s what the brain between the ears “thinks” it hears.

Yep.

For those who haven't seen/heard it before, this video on the "McGurk effect" demonstrates how (for the overwhelming majority of people) what you see can completely change what you (think you) hear:

 

[TubeDesigner]

You must be measuring the wrong things, but I trust my ears. And besides, there are things we can't measure.






Just kidding! I use RG-316 and BNCs for most everything.

 

[solderdude]

The Earth was known to be flat for thousands of years. There are literally countless examples of known fact that are constantly being overturned with new knowledge.

So, if 2 cables were randomly blind tested, and several people noticed a difference every time… but they measured exactly the same… what then? BTW.. I’m not saying measurements are bad. I’m just saying that the ear is also a measurement device, and can’t be totally discounted.

IF 2 cables were randomly blind tested and even 1 person (witnessed and verified) can actually reliably notice a difference then .... sure there is clear evidence that something IS different.
Your claim is they 'measure' the same which no cable ever does. Every different cable has different properties.
For cables to 'have a sound' the waveform MUST be changed in such a way that it becomes audible.

Now.... the recording thus must be 'better' than your average interlink cable's performance to make that difference audible.
I mean ... for fidelity to increase the signal has to be 'worse' using the cheaper cable so other cables (read cheaper) must 'remove' something that expensive cables do not remove.
Consider electronics is much worse than that (measurements say so). For that to happen the cables on the recording side and recording equipment MUST be 'better' than the cable.
Simply because 'better' implies no change is happening and regular cables obviously 'change' things for the worse otherwise there can't be an improvement.


Should you ever want to prove that cables can sound different in front of an audience with a well executed blind listening test do the following.
(It is kind of cheating but in the cable world you HAVE to)

IF I use a source with a VERY high output resistance or a 'complex' (also high) output resistance (say a transformer) I am 100% certain 2 different cables that 'measure transparent' on low output Z test gear can actually sound different.

This is largely because of its capacitance interacting with the high output Z forming a different roll-off point well within the audible range. So in this case interlink cables do matter. Note.... Kimber does NOT publish that data and is why it would be great if that was measured independently.
So .... you could rig a listening test to show audible differences between (interlink) cables.
In practice one could use a high resistance 'passive pre-amp' (an attenuator) for this say .... 100kohm.
That, however, would be VERY measurable on the gear that is used for the test but you must NOT show these measurements.

The cunning salesman could even easily 'measure' both cables in front of the public and show an AP555x that shows 'no difference', take those cables, insert them in the (rigged by means of the 'attenuator that has the purest sound as we don't want an active pre as it ads distortion and digital attenuation is a no-no) listening setup and perform a well executed statistically valid blind listening test with many people and prove one cable sounds 'better' than the other.
Make sure no one asks to measure the performance of that system and only invite 'believing audiophiles with golden ears'.

This would be a case as you suggested (measure transparent yet sound different), would be totally do-able and make use of a considerable higher capacitance of the 'worse sounding' cable.
In fact it could even happen in a home situation where one uses a high resistance 'passive pre-amp' between a low output Z source and long cables between that pre-amp and power amps near the speakers (shortest possible speaker cables).

This means that your scenario is actually possible BUT requires the cables to measure differently (and is why I asked for a simple measurement of resistance, capacitance and inductance).
They will measure 'like a wire' on test equipment but will measure VERY different on gear with a high output resistance and might even affect the audible range.

This is why I asked what the test conditions were (output resistance and load resistance/capacitance). Of course I know what they are (just check the AP555x specs).


It would be kind of interesting to do measurements like this and show that in certain cases a long high capacitance cable can 'sound different' in certain circumstances and then clearly measure different compared to the 'standard' cable test.

 

[Mnyb]

IF 2 cables were randomly blind tested and even 1 person (witnessed and verified) can actually reliably notice a difference then .... sure there is clear evidence that something IS different.
Your claim is they 'measure' the same which no cable ever does. Every different cable has different properties.
For cables to 'have a sound' the waveform MUST be changed in such a way that it becomes audible.

Now.... the recording thus must be 'better' than your average interlink cable's performance to make that difference audible.
I mean ... for fidelity to increase the signal has to be 'worse' using the cheaper cable so other cables (read cheaper) must 'remove' something that expensive cables do not remove.
Consider electronics is much worse than that (measurements say so). For that to happen the cables on the recording side and recording equipment MUST be 'better' than the cable.
Simply because 'better' implies no change is happening and regular cables obviously 'change' things for the worse otherwise there can't be an improvement.


Should you ever want to prove that cables can sound different in front of an audience with a well executed blind listening test do the following.
(It is kind of cheating but in the cable world you HAVE to)

IF I use a source with a VERY high output resistance or a 'complex' (also high) output resistance (say a transformer) I am 100% certain 2 different cables that 'measure transparent' on low output Z test gear can actually sound different.

This is largely because of its capacitance interacting with the high output Z forming a different roll-off point well within the audible range. So in this case interlink cables do matter. Note.... Kimber does NOT publish that data and is why it would be great if that was measured independently.
So .... you could rig a listening test to show audible differences between (interlink) cables.
In practice one could use a high resistance 'passive pre-amp' (an attenuator) for this say .... 100kohm.
That, however, would be VERY measurable on the gear that is used for the test but you must NOT show these measurements.

The cunning salesman could even easily 'measure' both cables in front of the public and show an AP555x that shows 'no difference', take those cables, insert them in the (rigged by means of the 'attenuator that has the purest sound as we don't want an active pre as it ads distortion and digital attenuation is a no-no) listening setup and perform a well executed statistically valid blind listening test with many people and prove one cable sounds 'better' than the other.
Make sure no one asks to measure the performance of that system and only invite 'believing audiophiles with golden ears'.

This would be a case as you suggested (measure transparent yet sound different), would be totally do-able and make use of a considerable higher capacitance of the 'worse sounding' cable.
In fact it could even happen in a home situation where one uses a high resistance 'passive pre-amp' between a low output Z source and long cables between that pre-amp and power amps near the speakers (shortest possible speaker cables).

This means that your scenario is actually possible BUT requires the cables to measure differently (and is why I asked for a simple measurement of resistance, capacitance and inductance).
They will measure 'like a wire' on test equipment but will measure VERY different on gear with a high output resistance and might even affect the audible range.

This is why I asked what the test conditions were (output resistance and load resistance/capacitance). Of course I know what they are (just check the AP555x specs).


It would be kind of interesting to do measurements like this and show that in certain cases a long high capacitance cable can 'sound different' in certain circumstances and then clearly measure different compared to the 'standard' cable test.

That can unsurprisingly become true with some weird high end equipment solved problems becoming unsolved again because “reasons”.

It’s ofcourse not a fault of the cables .

Mismatch of capacitance of an mm pickup is quite reasonable on the other hand , but it’s a known fact just read the spec buy appropriate cable . But I assume som listen only audiophiles gets this wrong to because they want to use some fabled brand name cable.

 

[Mnyb]

The Earth was known to be flat for thousands of years. There are literally countless examples of known fact that are constantly being overturned with new knowledge.

So, if 2 cables were randomly blind tested, and several people noticed a difference every time… but they measured exactly the same… what then? BTW.. I’m not saying measurements are bad. I’m just saying that the ear is also a measurement device, and can’t be totally discounted.

You need better electronics the cables are still magnitudes better than any HIFI components you can buy .

 

[Palladium]

What cracks me up with this $4000+ cable is my $5 USB cable has better quality braiding.

 

[JoeHTGuy]

This especially.
Ears are very rudimentary "measuring devices" compared to the measuring equipment available.

While the ears may not be as mathematically accurate of a pickup device, the process of human hearing is actually quite complex... and it’s still not fully understood. We perceive db differences in volume logarithmically vs. mathematically, it can be trained to more precisely detect differences, it can obviously be biased by thought, it varies per individual, it can be fatigued, etc.

Blind testing it in your own system removes all biasing and a host of other variables. It’s actually the most scientific test of all.

BTW… I do want to try Buckeye amps someday. You have a good thing going there.

 

[JoeHTGuy]

You need better electronics the cables are still magnitudes better than any HIFI components you can buy .

I would take it a step further and say if you really want better sound in your system, you need to change speakers. The rest, aside from major defects, is magnitudes less relevent.

Again, my opinion lies neither here or there on the matter. What I’m saying is that blind testing is in itself a scientific test, and is technically more accurate, as it removes a host of other variables. Like I said in the prior post, the human hearing system is very complex and not fully understood.

 

[olieb]

Like I said in the prior post, the human hearing system is very complex and not fully understood.

That may be, but the effect of a cable that connects two electric devices [based on over 200 years of science and engineering of electricity] on the music signal has nothing to do with the hearing system.
We have a very well tested theory about the electrical phenomena, and all things involved can be measured to a VERY high degree.
Saying that there is something "more" is equivalent to saying there is some magic stuff flowing through the cable that is not accounted for in (quantum) electrodynamics and solid state physics, and that can influence the electric devices in a way that changes the sound from the transducers but does not change the electric phenomena a bit.
And nobody ever found a measureable influence of that "magic stuff" which BTW manifests itself in "Golden Ears" exclusively. [This is actually the point where the "hearing system" is coming into play.]
Maybe there are elves involved who reward the buyer of the "right" stuff with soothing feelings?
ALL the evidence points to the golden ears (and the stuff between) making all this up.

 

[BlueTunes]

I would take it a step further and say if you really want better sound in your system, you need to change speakers. The rest, aside from major defects, is magnitudes less relevent.

Again, my opinion lies neither here or there on the matter. What I’m saying is that blind testing is in itself a scientific test, and is technically more accurate, as it removes a host of other variables. Like I said in the prior post, the human hearing system is very complex and not fully understood.

I do think ASR gets it's knickers in a bit of a twist too much over what isn't valid with regards to ones actual hearing.

We have a ranges of senses and each influences the other to a greater or lesser degree and in ways we don't really understand or appreciate.

Audio grifters have long figured this out and use it to influence the design and sales blurbs.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

the process of human hearing is actually quite complex... and it’s still not fully understood.

That is simply not true. We 100% know how our ears physically work/how they pick up stimuli. There is no hidden physical property of sound that our ears can detect that we don't yet understand.

How an individuals brain processes the physical stimuli input into their ears is where the misunderstanding begins. This has nothing to do with the physical sound itself and everything to do with psychology (or neurology if a disorder exists).

Again, ears and how they physically work/pickup sound is a solved and fully understood process.

 

[Robin L]

Right. And if they saw a unicorn every time, I would change my views on unicorns. Until then, unicorns don't exist.

Don't harsh my mellow, man

UNICORNS ARE REAL !!!

 

[Mart68]

They know enough about how hearing works to be able to develop lossy codecs that discard 90 percent of the information but which we still struggle to tell apart from 'full fat.' Seems to indicate that it's mostly a known area, at least for audio playback.

 

[JoeHTGuy]

That may be, but the effect of a cable that connects two electric devices [based on over 200 years of science and engineering of electricity] on the music signal has nothing to do with the hearing system.
We have a very well tested theory about the electrical phenomena, and all things involved can be measured to a VERY high degree.
Saying that there is something "more" is equivalent to saying there is some magic stuff flowing through the cable that is not accounted for in (quantum) electrodynamics and solid state physics, and that can influence the electric devices in a way that changes the sound from the transducers but does not change the electric phenomena a bit.
And nobody ever found a measureable influence of that "magic stuff" which BTW manifests itself in "Golden Ears" exclusively. [This is actually the point where the "hearing system" is coming into play.]
Maybe there are elves involved who reward the buyer of the "right" stuff with soothing feelings?
ALL the evidence points to the golden ears (and the stuff between) making all this up.

Again, blind testing will scientifically prove it out. You will never convince someone, by telling them “that’s the way is” and point to research. A blind test in their own system is pretty hard to argue… and if they can’t hear a difference and argue around it, then they are wrong.

It’s amazing to me that people here are arguing against blind testing.

 

[BlueTunes]

That is simply not true. We 100% know how our ears physically work/how they pick up stimuli. There is no hidden physical property of sound that our ears can detect that we don't yet understand.

How an individuals brain processes the physical stimuli input into their ears is where the misunderstanding begins. This has nothing to do with the physical sound itself and everything to do with psychology (or neurology if a disorder exists).

Again, ears and how they physically work/pickup sound is a solved and fully understood process.

Certainly not true when it comes to earphones.

The shape of the ear is a significant influence and is not a "solved and fully understood process ".

 

[Buckeye Amps]

It’s amazing to me that people here are arguing against blind testing.

No one is arguing against blind testing but rather pointing out it is not needed to test interconnects because they are a solved thing.

Much like it isn't necessary to physically take someone up into space to prove the Earth is round.