KIMBER KABLE: Do High-end USB Cables Make A Difference?

[Deleted member 9286]

Once someone has heard something it is hard for them to unhear it, even if it isn't there...

This is very true and that I can understand. I think someone else said in another thread that most people see themselves as above average and that although this theory may apply to others, it does not to them. I know I was definitely there in the early days.

The thing I find strangest above all else though, is the almost universal refusal to do a very simple blind test, even if just to prove things to themselves. Anyone who has ever suggested it on an audiophile forum will know the fire that gets sent their way if they dare suggest it.

So what is happening here? Either deep down they must suspect they are wrong and do not want to know for certain, or they would not be able to handle the reality of blowing thousands of pounds/dollars etc.

Fooling people with half science and compelling stories goes on everywhere, everyday and always has. That I can accept is just human beings doing what human beings do. But refusal to actually know the truth one way or another, when it is relatively easy to do so, is truly fascinating to me.

We are a bloody strange species!

 

[BDWoody]

So what is happening here? Either deep down they must suspect they are wrong and do not want to know for certain, or they would not be able to handle the reality of blowing thousands of pounds/dollars etc.

The combination of the two is my guess...

People want to feel and be special. Hearing special things others don't makes you very special indeed...
Who wants to be told they aren't that special?
Especially...given the $$$ spent... Of course every $5k cable matters.

 

[tpaxadpom]

What would be helpful is to have Amir measure several walwarts that came with various USB-SPDIF adapters and USB noise on a few laptops. The USB noise is quite low and the spectrum of noise should be very easy to filter out, whereas some walwarts I have measured showing some serious problems with well defined spikes. The reason I bring this up is because I see some generic statements thrown around: "USB being evil and walwart being magic solution". I would like to see the product with true galvanic isolation made available vs simply lifting Vbus or filter. Noise gets coupled through Gnd, D+ and D-.

 

[DarkLord]

I have heard different sound from different cables when using lower end DAC's like the Grace Design Standard DAC and the Musical Fidelity V90. This isn't even comparing high end cables, just different random cheap cables that I have acquired over the years. To be clear I do not own a high end USB cable. I could spend like $30 on a cable if it looked cool, but probably not anything more than that because yeah it probably shouldn't matter but for some reason it does appear to matter. Another thing that matters, again somewhat oddly, is USB ports. For some reason when I use the USB ports on my motherboard, the sound is miserable and exaggerated sounding. But when I use an attached USB hub with its own power the sound is much more neutral. The only thing I can say is that I have tried a lot, and I can't listen to the music when my USB is plugged into my computer directly, it's fatiguing. The line out is the same way, but the headphone out is more natural. Totally weird. Anyway, we hear what we hear and we have to go forth in the world knowing what we know and working with it.

 

[SIY]

I have heard different sound from different cables when using lower end DAC's like the Grace Design Standard DAC and the Musical Fidelity V90. This isn't even comparing high end cables, just different random cheap cables that I have acquired over the years. To be clear I do not own a high end USB cable. I could spend like $30 on a cable if it looked cool, but probably not anything more than that because yeah it probably shouldn't matter but for some reason it does appear to matter. Another thing that matters, again somewhat oddly, is USB ports. For some reason when I use the USB ports on my motherboard, the sound is miserable and exaggerated sounding. But when I use an attached USB hub with its own power the sound is much more neutral. The only thing I can say is that I have tried a lot, and I can't listen to the music when my USB is plugged into my computer directly, it's fatiguing. The line out is the same way, but the headphone out is more natural. Totally weird. Anyway, we hear what we hear and we have to go forth in the world knowing what we know and working with it.

This is the hazard of using peeking and not ears-only; it’s easy to convince yourself of all sorts of nonsense.

 

[BDWoody]

Anyway, we hear what we hear and we have to go forth in the world knowing what we know and working with it.

That's what great about this site... You can learn about what you don't know, so you aren't as likely to be misled by an industry that literally banks on your ignorance.

If one hears differences between cables or the vast majority of solid state devices operating within their design parameters, either something is broken, or one is not actually hearing what they think they are hearing.

Without controlling the listening/comparison for bias, the results won't be very meaningful.

 

[Marutks]

thank you for this test ! I was thinking about getting a "better" USB cable for my D90 LOL

 

[Hiilari]

As one columnist in SoundOnSound said: if digital cable in a digital system really affected the sound, then by definition the system isn't digital.

 

[DeepSpace57]

I think @amirm should use Sabaj D5 to test such devices, cables etc. D90 has no issue with jitter, which makes the tests nonsense. On the other hand, D5 is an excellent device for something else but jitter.

 

[wyup]

As one columnist in SoundOnSound said: if digital cable in a digital system really affected the sound, then by definition the system isn't digital.

That sounds nice, but a cable is not digital, it transports analog signals. And so is a system, every medium or device that handles or manipulates a signal, be it complex analog waveform or square pulses may introduce added distortion which can be mesurable or detected, in form of jitter or noise that 'could' have an effect in the final audio, depending on how that distortion in the signal is processed and if it's audible or not.

I am not defending that a cable can make a difference in audio, only that it could add interference or distortion associated to the medium and could affect the recovering of the signal somehow. To what extent that change in the signal is audible or not, I don't know.

 

[mansr]

That sounds nice, but a cable is not digital, it transports analog signals.

That argument is as wrong as it is old.

 

[sonci]

I think @amirm should use Sabaj D5 to test such devices, cables etc. D90 has no issue with jitter, which makes the tests nonsense. On the other hand, D5 is an excellent device for something else but jitter.

Yes, I remember he used some low performing dacs for such test like the Shcitt old dacs, so maybe in that case it could make a difference the quality of the cable..

 

[Hiilari]

That sounds nice, but a cable is not digital, it transports analog signals. .

You are of course correct here. The cable between your PC motherboard and hard drive is also in principle analog since, well, nature is (let's not go quantum mechanics here). But to be practical we say digital cable when the cable is designed to move bits, and the connectors at the ends tell this. In analog terms the digital cables should handle higher frequencies, up to MHz scale, and thus digital cables with their RF shielding are often more stiff. Which is no problem for a well designed cable.

 

[Ludodo57]

do you have tests with nomadic and high-end cables that connect amplifier and speakers? am always wondering if the high end cables were better in hi-fi or it's just marketing ??

 

[Maxicut]

As with all "digital" cables, as long as they're in spec & are built robust enough for it's intended purpose, they are all the same!

 

[amirm]

do you have tests with nomadic and high-end cables that connect amplifier and speakers? am always wondering if the high end cables were better in hi-fi or it's just marketing ??

It is just marketing. Testing speaker cables is a bit more tricky with an audio analyzer but I have some to test....

 

[MalinYamato]

Amir, I appreciate your efforts in substantially cooling off cable hype. I once fell into the hyped trap and kept on buying expensive Audiquest RCA and speaker cables. Now knowing better I regret all the stupidity and money that went that way. I bought Diamond B&W speakers from Dynamic Audio, Akihabara, Tokyo in package that includes Audiquest cables. I was so much indoctrinated by cable hype BS that I started to negotiate getting eve better Audioquest cables to be included in the package. They agreed and sold the package without increasing the price. The name of the cable is "Gibraltar" and have attached battery charged devices that induce some sort of current to keep them "burned in". My knowledge in this field is limited and dont know, yet I cared less as long as the cable itself is good. Those currently sell for USD 1,400. Crazy! Well, those funny blue thick cables were included in the package and I did not buy them separately. Then I carried on and bought expensive kimber cables for my surrounds and 5 signal cables Audioquest King Cobra, also crazily expensive. I feel like a fool now and get really depressed when I remember about this era of craze and how much I wasted money, down the drain. Sorry to say this, I puke when I hear about Audioquest and are utterly disgusted about how they are marketing USB cables. I am currently using a short well shielded USB cable between my computer and DAC that costs around $15 with no issues whatsoever. In case of ground loops I guess that those may be eliminated by a cheap inductive filter that physically separate the copper cords the same way as I use to quickly fix ground loops in single ended connections meanwhile I investigate about how to properly eliminate them. If and how inductive transformers may distort the signal itself, I dont know, I am such a novice in analogue science and technology. Thank you for all the excellent knowledge you provide us who love sound but risk getting fooled by greedy ruthless sharks.

 

[Veri]

Sorry to say this, I puke when I hear about Audioquest and are utterly disgusted about how they are marketing USB cables. I am currently using a short well shielded USB cable between my computer and DAC that costs around $15 with no issues whatsoever. In case of ground loops I guess that those may be eliminated by a cheap inductive filter that physically separate the copper cords the same way as I use to quickly fix ground loops in single ended connections meanwhile I investigate about how to properly eliminate them. If and how inductive transformers may distort the signal itself, I dont know, I am such a novice in analogue science and technology. Thank you for all the excellent knowledge you provide us who love sound but risk getting fooled by greedy ruthless sharks.

I think everyone knows people that have these big gold plated monster cables at their TVs, and audioquest coffee or (oh no!) even higher up the ridiculous product range, in their houses. I guess these people don't bother to look up if expensive cables do anything / are worth it.

I think it's especially a big problem that many people just parrot the necessity of expensive brand cables, not to mention hi-fi stores earning good money selling them, not to mention crazy brands like NORDOST etc.

 

[Hiilari]

With the analog side of things like RCA interconnects and speaker cables you can at least claim that there actually is a difference. It's analog, so yes, it is. The changes might be insanely small, impossible to measure, impossible to detect in blind tests, and the cheapo cable might be even better, but the differences are there.

But with moving digital info, as long as the hardware at both end of the cable is ok, there shouldn't be even a theoretical difference. I recall in certain test about 15 years ago they used a high-end DAC that was so flawed that in some rare cases it may have actually produced audible differences between coaxial SPDIF cables. So that DAC was favored by high-end magazines

 

[mansr]

I recall in certain test about 15 years ago they used a high-end DAC that was so flawed that in some rare cases it may have actually produced audible differences between coaxial SPDIF cables. So that DAC was favored by high-end magazines

But of course. It was more "resolving."