Kii THREE

[fas42]

There are no other interpretations. The above is the correct one.

So, you would be sure that none of the listeners hearing this behaviour have high noise levels on their mains? And if one were to deliberately inject high levels of noise, of various types, to the mains sockets feeding the Kiis that one would never be able to detect audible impact?

 

[March Audio]

So, you would be sure that none of the listeners hearing this behaviour have high noise levels on their mains? And if one were to deliberately inject high levels of noise, of various types, to the mains sockets feeding the Kiis that one would never be able to detect audible impact?

Very confident. For several reasons:

• My understanding is that the Kii uses switched mode PSUs. Have a think about how they work and you will realise the contradiction in your theory.

• Mains cables arent filters. Well I will qualify that - unless they have ferrites/chokes/caps built in.

• Many audiophiles put no bias controls into place when auditioning.

• Many audiophiles have vivid imaginations.

 

[Cosmik]

I've been noting quite a number of comments by owners of Kii's that changing the power cord alters the sound quite significantly. This is a shame, because it means that the filtering of the mains is not as good as it should be...

No it doesn't. It just means that audiophiles are imagining stuff, as we all do - some more than others.

 

[Purité Audio]

Delusional nonsense.
Keith

 

[March Audio]

Yes, SMPSes have different characteristics. However, this could be an implementation issue - the routing of cables within the unit could be having unintended consequences, through stray coupling. We have to assume that the designers know their stuff, because we certainly don't get any numbers confirming the level of rejection of interference.

The construction of the cable could have some impact by altering the spectrum of noise riding on the main waveform - just enough to be audible, if the internal protection isn't sufficient. The other scenario is that the Kii is injecting noise back into the mains, and is causing the the digital source player to alter its behaviour, thereby influencing the Kii.

If all circuits were perfect there would be no problems; unfortunately, the reality is otherwise.

FAS, you have no evidence of any of this. Why do you (along with many audiophiles it seems) feel the need to "make up" improbable (technically implausible) stories to explain something that has a VERY likely explanation? ie that there was no audible difference and the subjects were influenced by external factors.

 

[Purité Audio]

Post this twaddle on WBF , they are idiotic enough to enjoy it.
Keith

 

[March Audio]

Trouble is, they are not not technically implausable - I've done my own investigations modelling circuits much closer to the real world - using parts in power supplies which actually have the properties of items one buys, rather than theoretical fantasies - and, lo and behold the circuits misbehave; not dramatically, they still do the job they are supposed to do; but the wvaeforms have nasty artifacts and glitches appearing where conventional thinking assumes everything is well behaved. Taking it to the next level, I design changes to circuits which eliminate the glitching in the circuits simulated; transfer that to the real world circuit - and the result is better sound. I find this a preferable way of getting a handle of what delivers competent sound, rather than assuming that designers of consumer gear have my best interests at heart ...

Compared to the likely hood of audiophile imagination being at play in this instance, then yes it is implausible.

Frank, with respect we all know you have no expertise in this area. Anything you have done is entirely theoretical as you do not have any equipment to measure these effects, let alone the necessary understanding of RF and other noise behaviour.

BTW am planning, when I get the time, to post some measurements here which show what sort of noise is present on the mains. I have RF spec analysers but need to get hold of a LISN and limiter. Very expensive items to blow up.

 

[Mivera]

Great amps in the KII's. Measure leaps and bounds above any of Harman's offerings. I've been using the NC502MP full time for the last week.

Hypex will release their OEM DSP module soon and I've talked them into adopting AES67 AOIP. It will likely end up in the KII within a couple years as well.

 

[Purité Audio]

The Ncores are good, the Benchmark amps are good, there really isn't any need to spend huge amounts on amplification.
Amps should be part of the active speaker package imho.
Keith

 

[Mivera]

The Ncores are good, the Benchmark amps are good, there really isn't any need to spend huge amounts on amplification.
Amps should be part of the active speaker package imho.
Keith

Yes the day of the standalone box for audio is numbered. Anything but active speakers are stupid. You're on the right track with your active offerings. I like that they aren't sourced out of China either. Made with pride in Europe.

 

[Purité Audio]

A do you run your M2's with the Crown or ML amp option, over here the 'audiophile' version is ridiculously expensive.
I don't really understand why two versions are offered or for that matter why the speakers aren't active to begin with.
Keith

 

[Mivera]

A do you run your M2's with the Crown or ML amp option, over here the 'audiophile' version is ridiculously expensive.
I don't really understand why two versions are offered or for that matter why the speakers aren't active to begin with.
Keith

Harman doesn't disclose much for measured results on any of their electronics. I have no idea why one would want the ML over Crown because the spec sheets are lacking any meaningful data. Stark contrast to Hypex. Are they hiding something, or are they more into faith based marketing?

 

[Purité Audio]

Harman/JBL in the U.K. Are a total shambles, they have one 'distributor' whose only 'retailer' is themselves posing under a different name.
It is a real pity JBL Uk are just too feckless to do anything about it, perhaps that is endemic with all large companies bloated to the point of inertia.
Keith

 

[Mivera]

Harman/JBL in the U.K. Are a total shambles, they have one 'distributor' whose only 'retailer' is themselves posing under a different name.
It is a real pity JBL Uk are just too feckless to do anything about it, perhaps that is endemic with all large companies bloated to the point of inertia.
Keith

Yeah same in North America I hear. And now that Samsung has bought them, I can imagine quality's gonna slip another notch.

On a more positive note, have you heard the Weiss Livebar yet? Daniel was telling me about it and looks like the future of audio to me. Those Swiss companies are on the cutting edge. We have several partners over in Switzerland.

 

[March Audio]

Pragmatic is the term I would apply to myself. I use hearing to assess capability, and then learn what I need to know or understand to delve into the underlying behaviours. I was curious why amplifiers a couple of decades were all incapable of producing competent sound at elevated SPLs, irrespective of the butchness of their appearance - and over a period of time, through research, understood the design flaws they generally all have. It's almost impossible for a conventional amplifier to behave consistently, because the design weaknesses keep being ignored.

I'm certain that your personal system has absolutely none of the flaws I hear all the time - that I would be able to try any of my test CDs on your rig, at any sane volume, and it would perform perfectly ...

Using just your hearing to assess technical issues is precisely why you have repeatedly drawn the wrong conclusions and created your oft displayed audiophile mythological world.

 

[Sal1950]

Harman/JBL in the U.K. Are a total shambles, they have one 'distributor' whose only 'retailer' is themselves posing under a different name.
It is a real pity JBL Uk are just too feckless to do anything about it, perhaps that is endemic with all large companies bloated to the point of inertia.
Keith

Business sense would tell me that the UK market just doesn't justify the $ investment.
If there was a ton of profit to be made, they'd be doing it.

 

[Purité Audio]

haven't heard the new Weiss speaker, I am going to get the Bacch SP system here though, I feel that is more ubiquitous than an actual speaker and from all accounts it works more effectively too.
I did try the new Weiss DAC, it was good but really long latency so useless for films/TV and really expensive.
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

Harman will never discover the extent of UK sales with the current management /distribution.
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

Please don't pollute this thread with your puerile nonsense ,thanks.
Keith

 

[March Audio]

Frank, please note I said "just" your hearing. Its idiotic and delusional to think you can diagnose subtle technical issues with just your hearing, but if the cap fits......

I am not going to respond further to you, it will just disrupt the thread.