Kii THREE

[noobie1]

There are couple of non-audiophile reasons for bypassing the internal DAC:

1) If the internal DAC dies then I'm forced to get it repaired. Most electronics don't last forever.
2) As far as I can tell, the internal DAC only plays PCM files. Not that I'm partial to other formats but a choice is nice.
3) If I have an analog phono stage, why bother with an extra ADC -> DAC step? Initially, there were murmurs that Kii's analog input was not as good as its digital.

 

[Thomas savage]

There are couple of non-audiophile reasons for bypassing the internal DAC:

1) If the internal DAC dies then I'm forced to get it repaired. Most electronics don't last forever.
2) As far as I can tell, the internal DAC only plays PCM files. Not that I'm partial to other formats but a choice is nice.
3) If I have an analog phono stage, why bother with an extra ADC -> DAC step? Initially, there were murmurs that Kii's analog input was not as good as its digital.

Theres 9 DAC's ( I think) though and you need them for the speaker to work and do it's DSP trickery..

I don't think you can bypass them as the speaker won't work .

 

[noobie1]

Yeah I understand that. What I'm saying is it would have been nice if there was an option to use Kii as a conventional speakers. Perhaps, that's an impossible proposition given their emphasis on timing of drivers presumably controlled by each DAC.

 

[Thomas savage]

Yeah I understand that. What I'm saying is it would have been nice if there was an option to use Kii as a conventional speakers. Perhaps, that's an impossible proposition given their emphasis on timing of drivers presumably controlled by each DAC.

Indeed that would be completely pointless, like gliding a modern fighter jet.

 

[Gastronaut]

Hi there,
I am new here and a new happy owner of Kii's! Just a few comments from my side. I know that people are suspicious when something new pops up on the market, and therefore murmurs,..... So, when it comes to Kii's, they are very very high end speakers. Therefore forget about murmurs. And who cares about the ADC/DAC,....., if the end result is fantastic!?
I have had a chance to listen a turntable on my Kii's with Audio Research PH3 phono stage. And no, I was not surprised with the sound. It was stunningly amazing. The problem is that this speakers will show you exactly what is the quality of the source, digital or analog. And they are not forgiving. You will get exactly what you put into them.
So if you can, hear them first. Many people will not say how good they are. Well of course, they have the system purchased for the similar or higher price, and Kii's will sound significantly batter!!!

 

[Thomas savage]

Hi there,
I am new here and a new happy owner of Kii's! Just a few comments from my side. I know that people are suspicious when something new pops up on the market, and therefore murmurs,..... So, when it comes to Kii's, they are very very high end speakers. Therefore forget about murmurs. And who cares about the ADC/DAC,....., if the end result is fantastic!?
I have had a chance to listen a turntable on my Kii's with Audio Research PH3 phono stage. And no, I was not surprised with the sound. It was stunningly amazing. The problem is that this speakers will show you exactly what is the quality of the source, digital or analog. And they are not forgiving. You will get exactly what you put into them.
So if you can, hear them first. Many people will not say how good they are. Well of course, they have the system purchased for the similar or higher price, and Kii's will sound significantly batter!!!

Welcome to the forum, I'm glad your happy with your speakers. Iv still not heard them but will at some point.

 

[noobie1]

Hi there,
I am new here and a new happy owner of Kii's! Just a few comments from my side. I know that people are suspicious when something new pops up on the market, and therefore murmurs,..... So, when it comes to Kii's, they are very very high end speakers. Therefore forget about murmurs. And who cares about the ADC/DAC,....., if the end result is fantastic!?
I have had a chance to listen a turntable on my Kii's with Audio Research PH3 phono stage. And no, I was not surprised with the sound. It was stunningly amazing. The problem is that this speakers will show you exactly what is the quality of the source, digital or analog. And they are not forgiving. You will get exactly what you put into them.
So if you can, hear them first. Many people will not say how good they are. Well of course, they have the system purchased for the similar or higher price, and Kii's will sound significantly batter!!!

Hi Gastronaut,

If you don't mind sharing, what other speakers have you compared against the Kii?

 

[March Audio]

Yeah I understand that. What I'm saying is it would have been nice if there was an option to use Kii as a conventional speakers. Perhaps, that's an impossible proposition given their emphasis on timing of drivers presumably controlled by each DAC.

Hi Noobie, Im afraid that you have misunderstood the whole concept and modus operandi of the Kii speakers. They cannot be used as "conventional" speakers. The whole point of their design concept is to use the multiple drivers with DSP to mitigate room acoustic problems.

 

[Cosmik]

The whole point of their design concept is to use the multiple drivers with DSP to mitigate room acoustic problems.

...and also to bypass the known problems of passive/analogue crossovers - even without the bass dispersion control they would still sound and measure better than ordinary audiophile speakers.

 

[Gastronaut]

Before I answer, I believe that there is a general mistake when talking about the Kii's. Kii's are not a speakers. Kii's are a system, therefore it is a little bit like comparing apples and oranges. Comparing Kii's with the whole system would be more appropriate IMHO. However, I have auditioned Kii's first on the HIFI SHOW, comparing them with many speakers/systems, and came to conclusion them they were advanced in sound to the most systems (not all) up to 30-50K. Sometimes even more. But to be more prices, I have recently auditioned the system with Vivid audio speakers. Not sure about the model, but smaller in size, and still a bit bigger then Kii's. Vivid audio sounds great, open, great sound stage,..., but would not change them for Kii's. Kii's were more batter in the lower specter, more detailed in the mid range. And do not want to mentioned the price of the rest of the system supporting the Vivid's plus the price of the Vivid's. In my room, in my previous system, I have owned Verity Audio- Fidelio speaker. For those who are not familiar with it, it is a cheaper brother of the famous Parsifal. Fidelio is fantastic speaker in many ways, treble in Fidelio is even more to my ears, but Kii's gives you the filling of really being there, in the studio, concert,...
So, my point is that for the reasonable amount of many for the whole system, and the Kii's are the system, you get allot. Really allot. Not to mention less hassle with the cables, accessories,...

 

[March Audio]

...and also to bypass the known problems of passive/analogue crossovers - even without the bass dispersion control they would still sound and measure better than ordinary audiophile speakers.

Absolutely

 

[Thomas savage]

Before I answer, I believe that there is a general mistake when talking about the Kii's. Kii's are not a speakers. Kii's are a system, therefore it is a little bit like comparing apples and oranges. Comparing Kii's with the whole system would be more appropriate IMHO. However, I have auditioned Kii's first on the HIFI SHOW, comparing them with many speakers/systems, and came to conclusion them they were advanced in sound to the most systems (not all) up to 30-50K. Sometimes even more. But to be more prices, I have recently auditioned the system with Vivid audio speakers. Not sure about the model, but smaller in size, and still a bit bigger then Kii's. Vivid audio sounds great, open, great sound stage,..., but would not change them for Kii's. Kii's were more batter in the lower specter, more detailed in the mid range. And do not want to mentioned the price of the rest of the system supporting the Vivid's plus the price of the Vivid's. In my room, in my previous system, I have owned Verity Audio- Fidelio speaker. For those who are not familiar with it, it is a cheaper brother of the famous Parsifal. Fidelio is fantastic speaker in many ways, treble in Fidelio is even more to my ears, but Kii's gives you the filling of really being there, in the studio, concert,...
So, my point is that for the reasonable amount of many for the whole system, and the Kii's are the system, you get allot. Really allot. Not to mention less hassle with the cables, accessories,...

Intresting thoughts , I wonder if Mr kii three has ditched his reference speakers ( vivid audio g3's) and stuck to his own kii three instead...

I'm not sure he has

 

[Sal1950]

...and also to bypass the known problems of passive/analogue crossovers - even without the bass dispersion control they would still sound and measure better than ordinary audiophile speakers.

Yes, that's probably where most of any sonic advantages come from,
DRC can be applied in any number of ways, of arguable advantage in many quarters.

 

[Purité Audio]

I

Intresting thoughts , I wonder if Mr kii three has ditched his reference speakers ( vivid audio g3's) and stuck to his own kii three instead...

I'm not sure he has

I will ask him, perhaps Bruno needed a pair ofdecently measuring passive speakers for comparison purposes.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/vivid-audio-giya-g3-loudspeaker-measurements
Although he already had the Grimm LS1's.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

I

I will ask him, perhaps Bruno needed a pair ofdecently measuring passive speakers for comparison purposes.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/vivid-audio-giya-g3-loudspeaker-measurements
Although he already had the Grimm LS1's.
Keith

It remains true that the physical engineering needed to obtain good measured results in a loudspeaker are far more expensive and intrinsically inefficient compared to the software solution DSP can offer.

If this version of that implementation falls short ( it might not) the next wont , no doubt in my mind kii three and the speakers that will come after following in the same vien are the way forward.

I do wonder what stops a larger manufacturer making a similar performing speaker but a lot less expensive due to the obvious scale ,manufacturing expertise , facilitates etc they would hold over kii audio.

 

[Cosmik]

It remains true that the physical engineering needed to obtain good measured results in a loudspeaker are far more expensive and intrinsically inefficient compared to the software solution DSP can offer.

I would go further. It is simply not possible to equal the performance of a DSP-corrected speaker by throwing money at traditional implementations.

The words "DSP-corrected" will horrify the average audiophile with their implications of extra stages of signal-degrading processing, but if the source is digital and asynchronous then the DSP filtering is perfect, at the level of immeasurable mathematical purity - probably less degrading than a single millimetre of wire, never mind the metres of wire in the average passive crossover and the dodgy consequences of passive components inserted directly into the high power signal.

 

[Thomas savage]

I would go further. It is simply not possible to equal the performance of a DSP-corrected speaker by throwing money at traditional implementations.

The words "DSP-corrected" will horrify the average audiophile with their implications of extra stages of signal-degrading processing, but if the source is digital and asynchronous then the DSP filtering is perfect, at the level of immeasurable mathematical purity - probably less degrading than a single millimetre of wire, never mind the metres of wire in the average passive crossover and the dodgy consequences of passive components inserted directly into the high power signal.

Yea, that's fair imo..

A few audiophiles do convert their sacred analogue feed from their TT into digital to do room correcting etc..

I'm certain the digital Conversion process in the kii three is transparent.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm certain the digital Conversion process in the kii three is transparent.

While that may be debatable, I think it is more likely that any compromise due to the A/D/A process is less significant than not having the corrections of DSP.

 

[c1ferrari]

What would be informative is to have the original engineer responsible for the stereo mix and/or mastering the stereo mix comment on the Kii.
Kii is good stuff -- and I'm an analogue devotee.

 

[Gastronaut]

No, Bruno will not ditch the Vivid's. Sometimes he is using Giya on the shows with his MOLA MOLA gear!