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Kii THREE versus Dutch&Dutch 8C

Purité Audio said:
As to physics remmeber the Kii's have six drivers, two rear facing units ( like the Dutch&Dutch although I believe the 8C are 8" ) two at the sides and two at the front.
Now if you remember how to caluculate the area of a circle....
Click to expand...
Kii 3s have 4 woofers at a spec'd 6.5 in.
Don't remember the math but thank God for Google.

The total area of a 6.5in woofer is 33.18" x 8 = 265.44" for a pair of Kii's

The area of a 15" woofer is 176.71 x 2 = 353.42" (for a dual sub system mentioned)
To make it apples to apples the monitors + sub system will also have at least 2 6.5" woofers so,
66.36 + 353.44 = a total woofer radiating area of 419.8" for a dual sub'd + monitor rig.

Edit, The numbers would also be the same for a 3 way system with 15" woofers such as th JBL 4367
 
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Sal1950 said:
Kii 3s have 4 woofers at a spec'd 6.5 in.
Don't remember the math but thank God for Google.

The total area of a 6.5in woofer is 33.18" x 8 = 265.44" for a pair of Kii's

The area of a 15" woofer is 176.71 x 2 = 353.42" (for a dual sub system mentioned)
To make it apples to apples the monitors + sub system will also have at least 2 6.5" woofers so,
66.36 + 353.44 = a total woofer radiating area of 419.8" for a dual sub'd + monitor rig.

Edit, The numbers would also be the same for a 3 way system with 15" woofers such as th JBL 4367
Click to expand...
Are all four of the kii threes bass drivers used to create bass I thought some were used to cancelled out or control in room response ?
 
Thomas savage said:
Are all four of the kii threes bass drivers used to create bass I thought some were used to cancelled out or control in room response ?
Click to expand...
You are correct, but since that's something I can't calculate I gave him the benefit of doubt and threw it all in. ;)
 
Purité Audio said:
I don't usually criticise others speakers but these last two days I have had the opportunity to hear two statics from different manufacturers, my question is how can anyone listen to them, have they simply not heard a decent loudspeaker?
Keith
Click to expand...
Have you a idea what makes them so unpalatable to you? Objectively speaking.. Graphs, wavy lines and such?

Might be Intresting .
 
Sal I have the Kii's here, I also have active ATC ( 50's) Grimm, Manger ,PSi, we have had Grimm and Genelec 8260's with matching 7270a subs and the Kii's extend lower and the bass is tauter , actually the Gens probably extended a little lower but needed massive EQ to stop the whole room shaking.
I know new tech is always resisted especially by men of a certain age but good design is good design.
Look at the polar plots of the Beolabs ,superb.
The future of audio is not five subs destructively driving room modes ,and it's not as though kii thought of controlled directivity, many manufacturers went before,Geithain,Gradient, indeed even AJ of this very forum.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
Sal I have the Kii's here, I also have active ATC ( 50's) Grimm, Manger ,PSi, we have had Grimm and Genelec 8260's with matching 7270a subs and the Kii's extend lower and the bass is tauter , actually the Gens probably extended a little lower but needed massive EQ to stop the whole room shaking.
I know new tech is always resisted especially by men of a certain age but good design is good design.
Look at the polar plots of the Beolabs ,superb.
The future of audio is not five subs destructively driving room modes ,and it's not as though kii thought of controlled directivity, many manufacturers went before,Geithain,Gradient, indeed even AJ of this very forum.
Keith
Click to expand...
No one on this forum resists progress , possibly some might prefer to use objectively gathered data ( measurements) than pure subjective appraisal like ' iv just been listening to statics ' or ' the best bass iv heard' .

If you posted the room measurements for the above selection of set ups that would be real helpful, else it's not much more meaningful than something Frank might say .
 
ATC active 50's all room treatments removed,


Keith
 
Kii THREEs speakers placed in same positions,microphones in same positions.



Keith
 
Multiple subs can't represent spatial information.
Keith
 
Cosmik said:
I thought it had been said above that these were preliminary measurements from a prototype, and that production units would be better..?
Click to expand...

That's what Purité Audio said here.

Anyway, here's the source of the measurement:

http://kiiaudio.com/phocadownload/AUDIO_09_15_Kii_THREE_web_english.pdf

I don't see any disclaimers. I could have overlooked it if it is there.

On the other hand, everybody loves them so they must be OK.

This recording engineer does:

https://bobmaccsblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/10/kii-three-speaker-review/

And he even says he agrees with "every word" in the other article.
 
Purité Audio said:
Multiple subs can't represent spatial information.
Click to expand...

Uneducated Reply:

Low frequencies (as in a sub's usual 80hz and below) don't present much (if any) location information to the ear, if that's what you mean.

Spatially, I'd say low frequencies give the impression of big vs small.
 
Purité Audio said:
I don't usually criticise others speakers but these last two days I have had the opportunity to hear two statics from different manufacturers, my question is how can anyone listen to them, have they simply not heard a decent loudspeaker?
Click to expand...

My indecent 20 year old "statics" with 12" woofers and some cheap subs and some cheap room correction plopped on top...

upload_2017-2-1_15-6-42.png

Distortion (phase anomaly in the room at 45Hz @ 14%) - scale in dB below fundamental to be comparable to the Kii display. Blue line = 2% distortion level. Black - THD, red - 2nd harmonic, orange - 3rd harmonic

upload_2017-2-1_15-22-52.png
 
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Keith,
Thanks for posting this. Have you ever considered using REW? You've posted a screenshot from DIRAC. DIRAC windows this measurements in preparation for an inverse filter. So it's really meant to show how DIRAC's filters are derived. A REW plot can be much more standardized and better understood.

Across both measurements, it's clear you have a nasty mode at 38hz. IME, there's no room treatment which has ANY effect on such a mode. Moreover, the kii audio cardoid response is only good down to 80hz. I bet I could totally eliminate that mode with 2 subs, a MCH DAC/ADC and Acourate. You'd finally hear what good bass flat to 20hz sounds like.
Purité Audio said:
Kii THREEs speakers placed in same positions,microphones in same positions.



Keith
Click to expand...
 
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