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Kicker Key 180.4 Review (DSP Car Amplifier)

JRS

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This. I've seen plenty of vehicles turned into rolling sub enclosures with a small cutout for som50eone to drive it to the show... but I can't remember seeing the guy that was proudly displaying his ruler-flat FR charts and discussing how much effort went into damping the modes that were the most unruly. Seemed like half of the guys basically have a frequency response of 10Hz to 60Hz... and anything higher than that is just panel vibrations. ;)
No those are the guys wanting you (or more likely the ladies of a certain age) to think that they have a good system. The guys with the good sound do not as a rule make a habit of broadacasting--windows closed to keep out road/traffic noise, and have great, clean and smooth response to the teens (easy given cabin gain), with maybe some goosing in the 30 to 50 range, after all we are all human. And more often than not the installs are stealth--no reason to advertise the goods when people will gut an apt for the wire. But they are out there.

I had but a passing fancy for a decade or so during which I put together three rigs that sounded far better than the average audiophile home system, given the constraints of a cabin, and all for under 1500 in goods. That was during a time I commuted a bit; there are many young folks who were/are spending as much time in their cars as an apt or home, and would rather put their sound system there. It shows. The 1990's and aughts were likely the peak when it came to the insane amount of money being spent. IIRC there were at least two monthly glossy cover magazines in circulation that advertized gear, reported on competition and deserving installers, and reviewed gear of course. Not sure these days as I mentioned it was a blip of my life where I had occasion to put in three rigs over the course of seven years. But I was just like most audiophiles--more or less contemptuous of the rolling woofers and the abominable taste in music. And then my eyes were opened, and I thought this is really cool. I mean after cars became computerized, and hot rodding faded away, where was the energy and the enthusiasm gong. Well I'd submit that it exploded in the form of car audio and marked one of the more interesting technical revolutions during my lifetime. Now we have gamers with their zero latency everything and super cooled and overclocked processors.

It really is an embarrassment of riches when kitting out a car install. Check out the goods from Focal here. Used to be that they sold freely to the home DIY market, not so much anymore unless you want to buy an ensemble intended for car use. And when it comes to new cars and factory installed, these aint your daddy's caddy. Huge money is at stake with these contracts--certainly enough to send some serious life blood back into a company.

Things do seem to have been shifting somewhat back toward IEM's and headphones or desktops with modest sets of separate electronic stacks (vs a conventional hifi system many of us had in college and beyond. So there's some hobby enthusiasm, even if it's rolling op amps. But yes, high end car audio is definitely a thing, and as I said in a recent psot, some of the best audio I have heard in the past 20 years has been in a car. It's different; there is no way to lay out a soundstage like one can at home. It's more of an immersive experience when done well.
 

JohnBooty

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I believe IASCA is the most active in the US.

It's not particularly surprising to me. I spend a lot of time in my truck between driving and writing reports. My "mild" SQ build sounds better than my Revel M16 and Rythmik subwoofer in my home theater (before room correction), but it also cost much more and now has me chasing a parasitic draw. DSPs have both raised the floor (in OEM installations) and raised the ceiling on how vehicles can sound.
Oh, I should clarify. It's not surprising to me that car audio can sound great. I know it can, and I've heard it.

Stock systems are surprisingly good these days even on modest cars. Car manufacturers realized that for a tiny cost in materials, they can greatly increase their car's appeal to consumers. As we know from ASR and our own experiences, even modest gear can sound pretty good with a little DSP EQ assist.

For non-audiophiles (so, 99.999%) of the world their car is the only place they've ever heard a halfway decent sound system, aside from the movie theater. And even movie theaters seem like they may be on the way out....

But, what surprised me was that you made it sound like the competitive scene was ever about SQ. I thought the competitive scene was all about decibels.
 

Walter

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But, what surprised me was that you made it sound like the competitive scene was ever about SQ. I thought the competitive scene was all about decibels.
The competition scene was already well underway when I became interested in the 90s, but I believe SQ competitions actually came first. I seem to remember that "dB drag races" were originally just an exhibition only event, with no scoring, but I'm not 100% certain.
 

brandall10

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That's about where my system came in at. So yes. The minidsp dirac live unit, even though being a pain in the ass work environment, does all the heavy lifting for front state imaging and tonality. In the way it does "black box magic" that changes dramatically from one measurement set to the other it reminds me a lot of the MS-8.

I'm sure people get as good or better tunes out of the dayton audio or helix DSPs if they're skilled enough at tuning.

Is that for the full system (speaker upgrade + sub) as well, or just the electronics portion? I know pretty much nothing about the current state of car audio.
 

JohnBooty

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"Our" car used active crossovers, time alignment, and PEQ, all tuned by math, ear, and TS parameters. If we'd had access to a measurement system and knowledge of the Harman curve, we would have certainly used it, and probably dominated the scene.
That's amazing to hear! Thank you for sharing that. I had assumed that in those days, there'd typically be at least be some kind of measurement gear involved, even if it was "only" looking at an SPL meter during tone sweeps.

Also: love the Deathtöngue avatar!
 

Walter

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It really is an embarrassment of riches when kitting out a car install. Check out the goods from Focal here. Used to be that they sold freely to the home DIY market, not so much anymore unless you want to buy an ensemble intended for car use.
We were using Focal home audio drivers in our car, and except for their subwoofers, they were bargain priced compared to car audio brands (or complete Focal speakers). I remember when Focal first came out with speakers for automotive use--they were considerably more expensive and did not sound as good as the home drivers, but were perhaps a bit more rugged. When a trip back to the USA 10 years ago got extended considerably due to my mother's failing health, I could not tolerate the sound of the stock radio in her 1999 Camry (with less than 60,000 miles driven!!). I purchased a Pioneer head unit with iPod control and a pair of Focal separates that were on a close out sale for some ridiculously low price on Amazon. I then picked up an iPod with a broken screen on eBay, filled it with music, and mounted it in the glove box. The whole system cost less than $400. The installation took one afternoon, including cutting the holes for the tweeters. The hardest part was disassembling the dash sufficiently to attach a back strap for the head unit. I could not believe how good it sounded--probably 85% as good as our competition car from a decade earlier, at a tiny fraction of the cost and time. I'd gotten such a good deal on the system, when I pulled it out to sell the car 9 months later and put it up on eBay, I actually made a small profit. I think I still have the iPod somewhere.
 

H-713

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Okay, I've got tube amplifiers that make more power with less distortion than this thing... AND they glow in the dark.
 

billmr

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I got one of these new in the box at my local Value village for $7.99 a few months ago.

I was going to throw it into my kids e36 bmw along with whatever random speakers I have laying around. one channel of his stock amp does not work and bmw is known for crappy speakers.

It has to sound way better, and seriously in a normal old car environment considering the dsp how bad could this amp really be?

or should I just sell it on some auction site

thanks
 

davidc

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Wow. I was really disappointed in this review. The product I mean. The idea of having an Audyssey type EQ system for the car was really exciting to me. That hadn't been tried since the Alpine CDA-9887 head unit many years ago, which had Audyssey incorporated in it.

I was disappointed with the review from several standpoints. The product itself of course.

But also because the auto-EQ system wasn't tested. I was very excited to see how effective it was.

But secondly...why did you test an item that had already been discontinued for over one year? The KEY200.4 was announced in late 2019. It was the successor to the KEY180.4 that you tested.

Obviously, it had 5 watts more power per channel, but it also had other improvements that I don't know if Kicker had specifically described, but it would have been a better choice of a test subject.
 

davidc

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I wonder how the Kicker KEY500.1 subwoofer amplifier with audio processor (AI-driven DSP) would fair in a test?

I have toured the Kicker facility and knew people that worked there. It is a private company and it is run like one.
I was very excited to hear about the KEY500.1 as well at first, thinking I could have it for the bass, and do the Audyssey type auto EQ thing with an amp with lots of power, and use the KEY200.4 for the rest. But, Kicker does not make this very clear...the KEY500.1 does NOT use an auto EQ type system for the car's acoustics as does the KEY200.4/180.4. I learned this when I noticed the 500.1 does not come with a mic. It does it's EQ only on the line level input to the unit itself.

Also, why did Amir test the KEY180.4 when it had been discontinued for over a year? It had been updated to the KEY200.4, with apparently some unnamed mods to it's circuitry. Maybe it would have testeed better. The KEY200.4 replaced the 180.4 in early 2020.
 

Rexola

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Hi yall, i'm a longtime lurker here. I bought my Elac DBR62s and Yamaha R-N803D based on ASR reviews, and i could not be happier with my home audio.

I just spent a fortune replacing the factory audio in my wagon with expensive components... Kenwood wireless carplay head unit and JL Audio C3 speakers.

I was hesitant to get a separate amp because the head unit was already 50W/channel and i'm only interested in sound quality, not in permanently destroying my ability to discern sound quality by wrecking my eardrums with high SPLs. Also, adding an extra source of distortion didn't make sense to me.

However, my installer recommended the Kicker Key 200.4, and after reading countless rave reviews, i decided to take a gamble. I knew i couldn't accurately hand-tune the speakers to my wagon's interior using only the head unit's 15-band equalizer. The front and back speakers would need independent equalization. Everything i read on the internet suggested no other amp has come as close to nailing the car tuning problem as Kicker's Keys do.

After the installation, i was surprised by how bad it sounded, and by how much worse it sounded after Kicker's auto-equalization. So i analyzed the problem using a reference microphone plugged into a spectrum analyzer. I found that by positioning the tweeters inside a grilled dashboard recess, where the factory tweeters had been, they were being attenuated by as much as 10db, which was far more than the Kicker's DSP could compensate for.

So i re-positioned the tweeters and adjusted the crossovers to make it sound as good as possible without equalization (it still sounded pretty unacceptable. Don't buy JL Audio speakers). Then i re-ran the amplifier's auto-equalization and... i could hardly believe my ears... a very listenable flattish frequency response, no noticeable distortions, enhanced by what sounds something like variable 'loudness' compensation.

It was exactly the sound i'd hoped for. Even if Amir is right any everything above 10khz is just noise, i'm still very happy with the way my car audio sounds now. I went from being quite skeptical to very impressed with the work done by Kicker's DSP team. I just wish Yamaha's DSP guys were as good as the Kicker guys are. But then again, i'm not sure any amp's auto-equalization could squeeze an ounce more perfection out of my Elac DBR62s.

I'll now be keeping an eye out for any improved DSP amps, especially one with bluetooth connectivity to an app i can use to review and tweak the DSP results.
 
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BDWoody

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But secondly...why did you test an item that had already been discontinued for over one year?

Also, why did Amir test the KEY180.4 when it had been discontinued for over a year?

Our host typically reviews what is sent by members. If you have a newer version you'd like to be evaluated, you can contact him directly and arrange to send it in.

There has been some great older gear reviewed...the used market is where a lot of us do much of our hifi buying.
 

davidc

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the Kicker Key180.4 four channel car audio amplifier with built-in DSP and auto equalization. It was donated to me by a kind member and costs US $220 on Amazon including Prime shipping.

The 180.4 comes in small but sturdy package:
View attachment 165260
A multi-pin plug at one end terminates in four RCA jacks. On the other side, a much larger one provides power and speaker outputs. A bunch of DIP switches set various settings such as bridge mode, EQ, compression, delay, crossover, etc. A microphone input is provided for auto-correction. I did not get a chance to test any of this functionality and focused on pure performance of the amplifier itself.

Kicker 180.4 Measurements
It did not take any time for the amplifier to stabilize (this is a highly zoomed graph):
View attachment 165261

So I moved on to our usual dashboard:
View attachment 165262

Yuck! We have lots of distortion peaking up to -60 dB. Average of all amplifiers tested is about 79 dB SINAD and here, we fall short by huge 20 dB.

Noise level is not anything to write home about either:
View attachment 165263

Crosstalk falls in the same category:

View attachment 165264

Frequency response shows class D amplifier filter interacting with the load and causing peaking in the audible range:
View attachment 165265
Not good.

Power is modest but it is what you expect in this small package:

View attachment 165266

At least it matches spec which is unusual in car audio world:
View attachment 165267

8 ohm load naturally lowers output:

View attachment 165268

Stepping through different frequencies shows sharp rise in level:

View attachment 165269

I don't think I have seen such poor performance at 10 kHz before.

Multitone results were completely wrong and I could not make sense out of them so I am not going to post it. But you get a sense of it in the above test.

Conclusions
Performance of the amplifiers in 180.4 is horrid. It is what I expect a $50 amplifier to provide. So this better have one heck of a DSP subsystem to make up the cost difference.

I love the functionality of DSP+amplifier but need to see a better implementation to recommend the Kicker 180.4. Disappointing.

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Hi Amir,

I have a Kicker 200.4 amp which replaced the 180.4 about 2 yrs ago. I have yet to install it, it is new in the box. I had heard that Kicker had to address certain deficiencies in the performance of the amplifier, although my attempts to find out exactly what have been unsuccessful.

I would be more than happy to loan the amp to you for testing. I would love to see if the performance deficiencies have been addressed.

What do you think?
 

Rexola

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I'd sure like to see Amir's review of the Kicker Key 200.4, because after tweaking the crossovers and re-running the auto-equalization a few more times with different mic positions, my car now sounds better than my home stereo or bluetooth earbuds. I dare say "audiophile quality". I've spent hours happily sitting my parked car enjoying my favorite tunes trying to detect imperfections in the sound. What really gets me is how well they've done the loudness compensation. It sounds so naturally warm at any volume. I'm sorry now for not paying my JL Audio C3s the respect they deserve.
 
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davidc

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A couple years later...no answer still.

Plus, does the lowest noise and distortion matter in a economy car driving?
 
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