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KEF T101 Review (Thin Speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 156 91.2%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 11 6.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 4 2.3%

  • Total voters
    171

sarumbear

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That's not what it says. That is standard verbiage saying to set your AVR for small speakers which these are. In no way does it admonish its use without a sub. Here is the picture in the paper:

View attachment 176824

Where is the sub in that? It is standard LCR configuration.
With all due respect @amirm I posted the user manual and quoted the requirement. I have never seen such a requirement on any other speaker where is says "These satellite loudspeakers must be used set as 'SMALL' in the bass management menu on the AV amplifier/receiver." If you do maybe you will show us an example?

Crying out loud, those speakers are sold as sets! Look at the brochure and the product name on their online shop: T105 Home Theatre Speaker System How more clear they have to make that it is not a speaker but speaker system?

1641385959555.png


And just because the subwoofer is not shown on the picture you posted doesn't mean there isn't one. Here is another picture from the brochure. You can see the subwoofer and the stand.

1641385910179.png


Talking about the stand here is what is in the brochure.

There’s the option of elegantly simple extruded aluminium floor stands styled to match your T Series speakers – and by automatically rebalancing the output for wall or desktop mounting, the Selecta-mountTM system cleverly concealed in each stand gives you complete freedom of positioning without compromising sound quality.
 
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sarumbear

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Amir has provided full anechoic data. It should be pretty straightforward to simulate what response when wall mounted would be. @BYRTT ?
Indeed it is -- if you know how! Many like the following poster seem to be swayed by the comments on this thread, which are mostly on the lacking bass response.

How does a well-respected speaker company let something this bad out the door, much less engineer it to be so bad!? :facepalm: Thank you Amir for another revealing, objective test. Hopefully, it will save people $650USD. Maybe they'll be listed on Woot in a few months for $125. :)
Yes, this speaker has a serious crossover/driver-miss-match issue. It is shameful for KEF to have such a mistake. Yes, where the speaker is mounted will not change that error. However, almost all posts are about the lacking bass response. Even the so called objective ranking is affected by that lacking bass response. It is affected so much that @amirm suggested the base value to be increased by two so that we don't have minus values. That is my point: a satellite speaker should not be presented as a full range speaker.

Anyway, I have tried to present my case as clear and concise as possible with references and where appropriate tried to refute opposing views. I will stop here. Members can make up their own minds.
 
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dasdoing

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this speaker has a serious crossover/driver-miss-match issue. [...] where the speaker is mounted will not change that error.

not so sure about that. as we can see in the directivity plot the woofer will recieve a full wall reflection. that will alter the group delay
 

sarumbear

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not so sure about that. as we can see in the directivity plot the woofer will recieve a full wall reflection. that will alter the group delay
There shouldn't be extra boost from the wall at 1500Hz where the wavelength is 23cm, which is already smaller than the speaker frame.
 

Dj7675

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not so sure about that. as we can see in the directivity plot the woofer will recieve a full wall reflection. that will alter the group delay
I would assume the free space vs wall response would be similar to what JBL shows from their Control 25AV. Note the 25AV has overall much more extension than the T101, however. On wall of course won’t provide any help where the speaker is showing to have issues, however.
 

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krabapple

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I'm not sure putting it in front of a flatscreen TV is acoustically equivalent to wall mounting. Unless your TV is already wall mounted?

(I doubt true wall mounting would turn this into a winner though)
 

dasdoing

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I would assume the free space vs wall response would be similar to what JBL shows from their Control 25AV. Note the 25AV has overall much more extension than the T101, however. On wall of course won’t provide any help where the speaker is showing to have issues, however.

I have posted this documento in post #99 https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s--RykNl-uz--/f13d004c0f9b3816c91f8eeb078ef811a6ec0a7f.pdf

it shows the diference they expect. though not sure what responses they are realy showing

1641428670568.png
 

dasdoing

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the wall effect is not realy predictable anyway, isn't it? it will depend on the type of wall. a drywall-wall is much more absorbive than a european wall for example
 

radix

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We would greatly appreciate it. I know this T series doesn't perform well objectively, especially by KLIPPEL NFS anechoic standards. It's clear to me this won't be a candidate for surround "upgrade" for minimal room intrusion. Nevertheless, I'm still thinking a single T101c (I can get them for 169€ where I live) could work for me as a single back surround (6.1 channel), but I would need to see some in-room to corroborate if I can deal with its deficiencies through DSP.

How would you (or anyone) suggest I measure these on-wall? I have a calibrated umik-2. I could do, for example, 1m aligned with tweeter, or the MLP after Audyssey setup.
 

digicidal

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As horrifying as some aspects might appear... I think it probably wins something in the "lifestyle category" for which it was obviously designed. I'm guessing that nearly 100% of those purchasing it are putting room aesthetics a dozen or so places above sound quality.

In that case, where something that looks as unobtrusive as a wall mounted TV is a prerequisite - this probably sounds much better than the built-in speakers in the TV itself. As long as you never listen to any good speakers... you'd just be comparing bad to worse.

Or to put it another way... 50,000,000 Elvis Bose Lifestyle fans can't be wrong. ;)
 

Vladimir Filevski

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Small enough that you can use a single EQ for a wall speaker for both types?
Yes, difference between both wall types are smaller than difference between the same loudspeaker positioned on-wall and in "free space" away from walls.
 

Vladimir Filevski

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How would you (or anyone) suggest I measure these on-wall? I have a calibrated umik-2. I could do, for example, 1m aligned with tweeter, or the MLP after Audyssey setup.
Put loudspeaker on the wall at exactly half height between floor and ceiling and at least the same distance (more is better) from the nearest side wall. Microphone should be at 1m distance from the loudspeaker, at the same height as the tweeter (or below - try to get the best response). This ensures the best resolution towards lower frequencies. All measurements must be done before Audyssey EQ! We need this to evaluate the frequency response of the loudspeaker.

After that, position the loudspeakers on-wall where they should be in your room, put the mic in your listening position and start Audyssey.

We need both measurements!
 

dasdoing

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Yes, difference between both wall types are smaller than difference between the same loudspeaker positioned on-wall and in "free space" away from walls.

now that is obvious, but seeing how demanding people here are there will be a diference. let's say they got it perfect for onwall usage on a british wall. you can't expect it to be the same on a american wall
 

sarumbear

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now that is obvious, but seeing how demanding people here are there will be a diference. let's say they got it perfect for onwall usage on a british wall. you can't expect it to be the same on a american wall
British walls sound better :D
 

Vladimir Filevski

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now that is obvious, but seeing how demanding people here are there will be a diference. let's say they got it perfect for onwall usage on a british wall. you can't expect it to be the same on a american wall
Difference is much less than 1dB (off top of my head).
 

tecnogadget

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How would you (or anyone) suggest I measure these on-wall? I have a calibrated umik-2. I could do, for example, 1m aligned with tweeter, or the MLP after Audyssey setup.
You got an Umik-2, that's great. Since we already have the anechoic data from the Klippel, it would not matter that much to have the usual 1m aligned gated measurement, though it would not hurt to add it. The beauty of "in-room" is that it gives a glimpse of a real case use scenario, I would do both stock response and then Audyssey correction at the MLP (is it XT32?), with mic pointing to the ceiling and 90º calibration file, and of course a 50dB scaling (like bottom of the graph 90db, lower part of the graph 40db).
 

radix

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British walls sound better :D

Well, you'll both be sad, because my house, while in America, is from the 1880s, so it's lathe and plaster and redwood beams. Maybe that's more like British walls, though perhaps those are more brick and plaster?

My HT room is a bit of an oddball, being up in the 2nd story. The front and rear walls are 1.5m tall, and then go up at about a 50* angle to a 2.7m ceiling. I plan on putting my height speakers (the T101) on that angle where they are about 30* up from the MLP (this is a vertical height of about 2.5m). I could try measuring in a more standard downstairs room, but that's quite a hassle.

Should I try to gate it? I think, as it would need to be like a 4 to 5 msec gate based on what I calculated form mehalu.net for 1m separation. If I pull the mic back to 2m or so, then I could do closer to 8 to 9 msec.

I have a denon 6700 and the Audyssey app. I'm not sure if that's XT32.

Marc
 
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