KEF Reference 5 VS Blade 2 vs Muon

[Sancus]

There is a lot of guessing, making of claims and general pontificating going on here. If one wants to compare the R11 to the Reference 5 put them both on a Klippel and look at the measurements first. Then, do a double blind comparison. At, $20 large, I find myself very skeptical of the notion the Ref 5 is any more than marginally better than the R11 for $6k. The few existing published reviews (measurements included) tend to support my view. At $200k the Muon isn't even on the same page.

I agree with you, FWIW here are the Kef R-series measurements I know of(other than Erin/Amir's):
Kef Reference 1, 3, R11, Blade 2 from Soundstage.
Kef Reference 5 from Stereophile.

You have to take all this with a grain of salt because these measurements(especially stereophile) aren't as comprehensive as the Klippel, but to my eye the R11 looks very similar to the Reference 3/Reference 5 to the point where it's too hard to call with no DI curve or Klippel contour map.

The Blade 2 looks like it has worse directivity issues than the others.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

The strong point about the Blades its Point source design, you are going to winning a good thing... Reference and R are kind of the same
Blades + dual subs should be a really nice end game..

 

[Ron Texas]

@Sancus thanks, but I can't get over the Blade's starship design. I mean, impress your friends who don't know anything about Audio, LOL.

Get a Muon or a 911, I should have such problems.

 

[blueone]

@Sancus thanks, but I can't get over the Blade's starship design. I mean, impress your friends who don't know anything about Audio, LOL.

Get a Muon or a 911, I should have such problems.

And not just a 911, but a Turbo S. And even the Turbo S only lists for about $208K, you'd have enough left over from resisting the Muon to order the Burmester sound system option, and a nice driving vacation. I think I'd take the 911.

 

[Ron Texas]

And not just a 911, but a Turbo S. And even the Turbo S only lists for about $208K, you'd have enough left over from resisting the Muon to order the Burmester sound system option, and a nice driving vacation. I think I'd take the 911.

Me too. My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends, oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz...

 

[steve59]

Too funny. Sometimes I think folk come to this forum to convince themselves their chuck steak is as good as the ribeye because they came from the same cow, weigh the same and are 85% lean lol. There's nothing wrong with audio reproduction not being a priority. I am surprised tho to find an audio forum anti hifi.

 

[Ron Texas]

Too funny. Sometimes I think folk come to this forum to convince themselves their chuck steak is as good as the ribeye because they came from the same cow, weigh the same and are 85% lean lol. There's nothing wrong with audio reproduction not being a priority. I am surprised tho to find an audio forum anti hifi.

Not anti hi-fi. Anti insanity

 

[blueone]

Too funny. Sometimes I think folk come to this forum to convince themselves their chuck steak is as good as the ribeye because they came from the same cow, weigh the same and are 85% lean lol. There's nothing wrong with audio reproduction not being a priority. I am surprised tho to find an audio forum anti hifi.

How did you come to that conclusion? Because I didn't care for the KEF Blade, and that's what's in your system? I think the Blade sounds great, just not $32K worth of great. As for the Muon, well, I'd still rather have another Porsche, or two.

 

[thewas]

The blade and reference line address back wave in the speaker design which I think would make the meta redundant

The meta is for the tweeter back waves and there the Blade and Reference don't have the 99% absorption of the new metamaterial, but am positive their next generation will get it too.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Not ruined just well beyond the point of worthwhile diminishing returns IMO.
It is £140,000 per pair!

That Muon looks like it belongs on the set of "Barbarella."

 

[atsmusic]

How did you come to that conclusion? Because I didn't care for the KEF Blade, and that's what's in your system? I think the Blade sounds great, just not $32K worth of great. As for the Muon, well, I'd still rather have another Porsche, or two.

I always preferred speakers over cars. If I had the money for a Porsche or two that would go towards hi-fi for me.

 

[steve59]

I wouldn't pick a single post out of the thread. I would agree with the OP that the difference between the R11 and Ref 5 is huge, and weather you like the Blade matters to me as much as I care what kind of car or truck you drive. The point is the differences are real and only worth the price difference to the Individual. That I like hifi enough and can afford the blade doesn't minimize what the R11 does.

If I was financing my purchase I wouldn't own the blade's but what the price difference brings me I can clearly hear and is worth the money I spend.

 

[bo_knows]

The big difference is in the bass.
The Blade has 4 9" units packed more closely and centred on the same acoustic centre as the coaxial.
The Reference 5 has 4 6.5" units on the front.
I have heard the Blade often and it is excellent.
I don't like the styling though so would never buy one.
I haven't heard a Reference 5 but I like the look of it more, though they reduced the number of available finishes a while ago dropping some of the ones I liked best.

Heard them both, BIG Blades provide a bigger/ deeper bass and they sound more open and effortless. Both speakers require a large listening room to sound best. That said, I wouldn't sit too far from them (9-12) feet.

 

[bo_knows]

Well if you use 2 good subs placed in strategical positions to benefit from the room acoustics and place the speakers in the best position for imaging/soundstage, you can get pretty close, the same or better.

Better FR in the bass region for sure. Blades will need to be pulled from the back wall to image best and their performance will suffer from SBIR where the reference can be crossed over to sub at 70-80Hz to minimize SBIR with some treatments directly behind them.

 

[MarkWinston]

I wouldn't pick a single post out of the thread. I would agree with the OP that the difference between the R11 and Ref 5 is huge, and weather you like the Blade matters to me as much as I care what kind of car or truck you drive. The point is the differences are real and only worth the price difference to the Individual. That I like hifi enough and can afford the blade doesn't minimize what the R11 does.

If I was financing my purchase I wouldn't own the blade's but what the price difference brings me I can clearly hear and is worth the money I spend.

I cant possibly understand when anyone says the R series is very near the performance of the Reference. They are far apart, not even in the same league. Adding a sub to the R series wont make it a Reference as the improvements are not only in the bass department but everywhere.

 

[steve59]

I can only think they’re not interested enough to research the different lines.

 

[gags11]

I cant possibly understand when anyone says the R series is very near the performance of the Reference. They are far apart, not even in the same league. Adding a sub to the R series wont make it a Reference as the improvements are not only in the bass department but everywhere.

I’m just curious, when you say improvements everywhere, what are this improvements?

We know R series already performs exceptional and reference series measure elsewhere has not demonstrated much improvement over the R.

main difference is that Reference series is made in England, FR is measured and certified by a the technician. The FR plot is included with the speakers.

In objective terms the reference series can play slightly louder as the advertised specs for max spl are a bit higher. And Reference series weighs more than R.

IMHO, the R series is an improved version of the reference, but made in China and bit less bling. I would love to see one of those References series measured here.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

For me the biggest difference between R and References is the sub bass, cleaner and deeper.

But the box are bigger and much expensive and not yet 2xhz extension, so for me paying A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT more and not getting that nice very deep sub bass extention is not a good deal..


But not everyone values his money as i do.

I have listened both, most R and Reference 3.

 

[MarkWinston]

I’m just curious, when you say improvements everywhere, what are this improvements?

We know R series already performs exceptional and reference series measure elsewhere has not demonstrated much improvement over the R.

main difference is that Reference series is made in England, FR is measured and certified by a the technician. The FR plot is included with the speakers.

In objective terms the reference series can play slightly louder as the advertised specs for max spl are a bit higher. And Reference series weighs more than R.

IMHO, the R series is an improved version of the reference, but made in China and bit less bling. I would love to see one of those References series measured here.

Audibly in EVERY department. Its gap is huge. Its not even in the same league. I suggest you put down the graphs for just a sec and take a listen if you have the chance. At some point we all will start listening to speakers so I suggest thats the best way to eveluate things. Youll go scrambling back to those all those graphs once youve heard both to to justify and find what is making such a difference and learn that there is more to it than fr and directivity. Go have a listen, normally or triple blinded if that helps.

 

[Newman]

And not just a 911, but a Turbo S. And even the Turbo S only lists for about $208K, you'd have enough left over from resisting the Muon to order the Burmester sound system option, and a nice driving vacation. I think I'd take the 911.

The other thing those cars have in common with the Muon/Blade apart from price, is that practically everyone who buys them will never use them in a way that reveals their specialness.