KEF Reference 3 - damaged cone

[1066]

Erin has measured the effects of dents on cones here:

 

[wgb113]

I’m the second owner of my Reference 3 and 2 of the 4 woofers have slight dimples, so slight that they are hard to capture in a photo.

They do not appear to degrade sound quality but yes, their drivers are VERY easy to dent it seems. Even our older Q series that are in a high-traffic area in our family room have some dimples and they live behind full grills 100%of the time. The grill covers on the Reference series are a terrible afterthought. I don’t use them for fear of damaging the drivers when putting them on and taking them off. They’d be much better if they came in one full grill like their R series.

 

[dogmamann]

Erin has measured the effects of dents on cones here:

Erin has measured the effects of dents on cones here:

that’s for tweeters if m not wrong. Yes on tweeters and even on some midranges it would mess up the directivity. On woofers, no.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Yes on tweeters and even on some midranges it would mess up the directivity. On woofers, no.

I have a better solution. Use planars and ribbons for mids and highs, and WCF or an impregnated material instead.

Problem solved, and usually for a lifetime. Even a graphite cone is a lot better solution unless they are hit with a golf ball, or worse, a golf club/putter.

I've used aluminum cones on several occasions, but you really have to wallop them to leave a dent.

The fact is, they are CHEAP, and the material is way too thin. Measurements be damned. I've seen that happen to a lot of their drivers. There is zero excuse when there are a lot better alternatives with as good as or better results.

I prefer to say out of trouble, not explain why I made a bad choice to begin with. I guess I've had to fix too many other people's/companies' mistakes through the years. Call me cynical, but at least it has made me a more cautious consumer in the long run with some speaker systems well over 50 years old. Let me add, thank GOD for Mcintosh gear.

Regards

 

[dogmamann]

I have a better solution. Use planars and ribbons for mids and highs, and WCF or an impregnated material instead.

Problem solved, and usually for a lifetime. Even a graphite cone is a lot better solution unless they are hit with a golf ball, or worse, a golf club/putter.

I've used aluminum cones on several occasions, but you really have to wallop them to leave a dent.

The fact is, they are CHEAP, and the material is way too thin. Measurements be damned. I've seen that happen to a lot of their drivers. There is zero excuse when there are a lot better alternatives with as good as or better results.

I prefer to say out of trouble, not explain why I made a bad choice to begin with. I guess I've had to fix too many other people's/companies' mistakes through the years. Call me cynical, but at least it has made me a more cautious consumer in the long run with some speaker systems well over 50 years old. Let me add, thank GOD for Mcintosh gear.

Regards

Kef makes the best coaxials on the market and that’s how they acheive that directivity. Replacing them for something else is pointless

 

[morethinkingcapacityneede]

I’m the second owner of my Reference 3 and 2 of the 4 woofers have slight dimples, so slight that they are hard to capture in a photo.

They do not appear to degrade sound quality but yes, their drivers are VERY easy to dent it seems. Even our older Q series that are in a high-traffic area in our family room have some dimples and they live behind full grills 100%of the time. The grill covers on the Reference series are a terrible afterthought. I don’t use them for fear of damaging the drivers when putting them on and taking them off. They’d be much better if they came in one full grill like their R series.

So, a bit of an update. I eventually picked up a pair of KEF Ref3 in near-perfect condition albeit at a higher price

I wanted to avoid dents and bought the grilles. I agree with you, putting on the grilles for the woofers is kind of scary, and you hear a scary noise of the grille bumping up against the woofer. I just leave them on. I think they still look fantastic...

 

[morethinkingcapacityneede]

Now just to figure out of how to keep them in this condition with a brand new kitten in the house

 

[DMill]

Until you measure them you will never really know if the dents are indicative of an audible difference. Probably not I think in this case. But it could be something really bad. Every now and then you can find a busted up pair of speakers from the same manufacturer and use them as parts on the used market. I had some B&Ws years ago that got damaged and found the same pair on eBay for next to nothing cause they were trashed and replaced a cabinet and two tweeters. If you don’t mind swapping parts you can save a few bucks this way.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Replacing them for something else is pointless

Horse punkie, I've heard better and built better, and they don't explode drivers and surrounds. They are cheap, period and I'm being extremely nice about how cheap they really are. I've see the same problem so many times It's not a question of anything if they don't, won't or can't hold up under any SPL. I'm not into poorly made junk.
They can measure the best in the world but they aren't worth a nickel if the fall apart. BUT you enjoy them as long as they last in any case.

I'll take a Tannoy any day. Sometimes you don't get what you pay for, and those things are a perfect example of poor quality and engineering. Next, cardboard cars will be the new thing. Great fuel mileage until the first rain. Right there with paper pants and newsprint shirts.

 

[dogmamann]

Horse punkie, I've heard better and built better, and they don't explode drivers and surrounds. They are cheap, period and I'm being extremely nice about how cheap they really are. I've see the same problem so many times It's not a question of anything if they don't, won't or can't hold up under any SPL. I'm not into poorly made junk.
They can measure the best in the world but they aren't worth a nickel if the fall apart. BUT you enjoy them as long as they last in any case.

I'll take a Tannoy any day. Sometimes you don't get what you pay for, and those things are a perfect example of poor quality and engineering. Next, cardboard cars will be the new thing. Great fuel mileage until the first rain. Right there with paper pants and newsprint shirts.

Can you show the measurements of your designs?

 

[TheBatsEar]

Yes, I had a female albino with red eyes and snow white. Wild animal in the house...

What do they do when you aren't home? Do you keep them in pairs?

 

[TheBatsEar]

I'll never understand the audiophool fixation with naked, fragile drivers.

Bought a pair of used KEF R3, they had nice, thick felt grilles:

However, they are held in place with a magnets only. No match for a determined toddler with a pencil.

I wouldn't buy the speakers in the OP's post.

Are you one of those Panicans we Europeans hear about on TV? If the woofer has a defect, you should be able to hear it or see it in a quick measurement.
The driver itself would cost less than $300 US i think.

 

[Doodski]

What do they do when you aren't home? Do you keep them in pairs?

If they are locked in the decently large cage with a special non-leaking water container, food and a plush soft fabric small blanket so they can burrow under or in it to sleep then they will sleep nearly all the time. If the cage door is left open so they can freely go in and out for food and water they prefer to sleep inside the sofa under a cushion or chair. Any fabric that is small enough for them to drag to a nest they make under a chair or sofa will be gone in a moment or minutes if it is left on the floor or on a bed as the ferret if awake is always following you around sneaking under furniture and looking at what you are doing and when they see a sock or a towel etc it is immediately stolen and taken for it's secret lair locations. If the owner is not at home and the ferret locked in the cage they rarely awake and if the door is open they will sleep the daytime and at night they awake and roam the space and make a mess if the area is not ferret proofed to eliminate trouble they can get into. If you are sleeping and the ferret was not locked in it's cage it will jump up on the bed, get under the covers and commence sniffing you and being a pain in the ass. Mine came from a woman that had a boyfriend and she said it never liked him nor any men and it liked women and never bit women but was known to bite men. I was not bitten in the daytime if I was handling her or playing as they really really enjoy playtime but if I was sleeping and it was not in the cage it would often bite my ankles at the Achilles tendon and it hurt a lot. After years of owning the ferret I was fed up with the constant getting into trouble, biting me at night if I could not find it and lock it in the cage and I worked over 70 hours per week and felt locking it in the cage so much was not good for the ferret so I gave her to a British woman I knew and the ferret loved her and was treated very well and always had people around to keep it company and she said it never bit her at night like it would bit me.

 

[Westsounds]

There is no way on earth you are going to hear there are dents in that cone! No matter if you were Batman That will affect the sound 0%

Buy them, cone damage is a sign of individualism

 

[Arindal]

I was really surprised how easy was it to get it dented.

You seemingly don't have kids. They manage to cause such dents literally with a paper plane. Not kidding!

 

[Toni71]

I have had a lot of Kef speakers in our house. R7, R3, R11, R3 meta, Ref 1 and now the Kef ref 5 meta. The drivers from all these speakers are fragile. Touching them is damaging them with a dent.

The grills from the reference series work with three sharp connections on the back. Like a hook between the driver and the speaker cabinet. Other then the r-series with no hooks, only magnets. Not putting them in place 1mm uncorrect is again easy damaging the woofers

A lot of second hand speakers have these dents. I did read in another topic of a member that his glasses hanging on his neck touches the driver with cleaning. Some did not take his complain seriously. Yes, for sure that can cause a dent in these speakers.

I have the grills ready here. I am somewhat afraid to attach them.

Unboxing and placing the Ref 5 Meta here with an employee of the store was an anxious moment for me making sure we both didn't touch the drivers.

Such a small dent doesn't affect the working. But visible, not nice on such expensive speakers.

 

[Westsounds]

These could be the world's most fragile and delicate drivers, perhaps ?

 

[Toni71]

The sound is great. That's for sure.

 

[Westsounds]

The sound is great. That's for sure. A kid in our house cannot go near the speaker. 230v fence around.

Just 230V

 

[Toni71]

I had edited my post, maybe to harsh. I don't like children. Only for someone else.

On a side note. Maybe attaching some sort of thin tape or material on the reference grills connection hooks (English name?) will not make scratches or dents on the sides of the woofers.

For the low end and to pull of some force on the woofers two subs are joining my setup soon.