Kef Reference 1 vs LS50M w subs

[thewas]

Speaking for myself. I'd go toward a R3 + Pair of SB-1000 Pro subs rather than the Ref 1 alone.

Same here, especially in my current strongly bass absorbing listening room, subwoofer(s) is(are) necessary even with large "full range" loudspeakers to get the tonal balance right, but generally that preference depends a lot on the room, listening distance, level and material.

 

[bo_knows]

If you look at B&W they use very different boxes for their 800 series and you can see where the money goes!

With KEF the Reference series is still MDF not even HDF and definitely not as much engineering differences with the R series.

FYI I own many KEF LS50!

Oh boy, I'm not sure why the reference series is giving you such grief. Why does KEF need HDF when they are using the aluminum plate, tie rods, resin, and constrained layer damping? Do you see how they elegantly replaced long aluminum tubes solution with cheap plastic metamaterial and achieved the same if not better result? You are paying for their engineering ideas, not just material. Anyway, it seems you and I are at odds with each other so I'll stop here.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Make a speaker this cute is hard..

 

[Descartes]

Make a speaker this cute is hard..

Agree that it look very nice, stil a rectangular box and very shiny! Is that the rosewood color?

 

[Great Egret]

Make a speaker this cute is hard..

 

[Great Egret]

Agree that it look very nice, stil a rectangular box and very shiny! Is that the rosewood color?

You can always choose something else

 

[jonfitch]

If you look at B&W they use very different boxes for their 800 series and you can see where the money goes!

With KEF the Reference series is still MDF not even HDF and definitely not as much engineering differences with the R series.

FYI I own many KEF LS50!

Isnt the baffle an aluminum block? Most manufactures like Dynaudio, Usher, even TAD mainly reinforce the front baffle. I think only Ascend Acoustics uses an exotic material all-around (bamboo).

 

[ahofer]

View attachment 188109

Getting rid of the speaker cables is even harder.

 

[roryoconnor]

Its a good point. There does seem to be a gulf between the R3 and REF1, pricewise. Opportunity there for a new product with
less reference refinement but better sound than the R3?

Also plenty of scope (IMO ) for a new active speaker without DAC/ Streamer/ DSP, both as a floor-stander and bookshelf.

A lot of enthusiasts would like the option of keeping their DAC and streaming transport ( well me anyway )

 

[Kahana]

Current big sale has R3 priced just about $100 more than meta... Meta Wireless II $500 discount - see Kef store on Am@zon - Cheers

 

[ahofer]

A lot of enthusiasts would like the option of keeping their DAC and streaming transport ( well me anyway )

It’s easy to keep your streamer with the LS50W, just use optical or USB input. But the crossover and DSP is in the digital domain, so you can use the analog input, but it will be converted.

 

[Daka]

Its a good point. There does seem to be a gulf between the R3 and REF1, pricewise. Opportunity there for a new product with
less reference refinement but better sound than the R3?

Also plenty of scope (IMO ) for a new active speaker without DAC/ Streamer/ DSP, both as a floor-stander and bookshelf.

A lot of enthusiasts would like the option of keeping their DAC and streaming transport ( well me anyway )

No there isn’t, whole point is sound wise they are not that different. So there would be no point in creating anything in the middle would there?
You know how they test reference woofers and blade as well? By ear - watch KEF factory tour. For that kind of money you would expect more advanced measurements to be done.
The reference price should be lower - at the moment is heavily overpriced. But that ain’t gonna happen.

 

[Daka]

Oh boy, I'm not sure why the reference series is giving you such grief. Why does KEF need HDF when they are using the aluminum plate, tie rods, resin, and constrained layer damping? Do you see how they elegantly replaced long aluminum tubes solution with cheap plastic metamaterial and achieved the same if not better result? You are paying for their engineering ideas, not just material. Anyway, it seems you and I are at odds with each other so I'll stop here.

Well if the sound isn’t that much better in reference, look wise it looks very similar with enhanced build quality (mostly visible in one option only IMHO) - then you start to question why to pay 6-7x more. They don’t differentiate there lineup properly to justify that price - that’s the problem. And the special hand built measured individually is just a fad to charge more money. They measure woofer freq response by ear…
Yes you do pay for tech but similar if not the same tech is present in cheaper lineup. Don’t take it from me - have a look on YouTube and you find people who own reference and compare to LS50 metas. Apart from LF response (which you can address with subwoofer) there is little to no difference. Would you pay 7x price for appearance of reference line alone?

 

[Daka]

Make a speaker this cute is hard..

Very nice looking indeed, haven’t seen that option on their website custom order?
Now the question is for similar price would people get this or end game speaker like La Scala that makes people cry

 

[bo_knows]

Well if the sound isn’t that much better in reference, look wise it looks very similar with enhanced build quality (mostly visible in one option only IMHO) - then you start to question why to pay 6-7x more. They don’t differentiate there lineup properly to justify that price - that’s the problem. And the special hand built measured individually is just a fad to charge more money. They measure woofer freq response by ear…
Yes you do pay for tech but similar if not the same tech is present in cheaper lineup. Don’t take it from me - have a look on YouTube and you find people who own reference and compare to LS50 metas. Apart from LF response (which you can address with subwoofer) there is little to no difference. Would you pay 7x price for appearance of reference line alone?

I did... I will add one more thing since the whole topic is on Reference 1 vs LS50 with sub. Without offending any reference 1 owners or taking anything away from this superb speaker, I personally thought that it would be better value to add a little more money and go for the larger speaker that doesn't need very expensive stands (2K), has a better bass response and it's a little more efficient. But that's just me and my use case. To conclude, I never owned Ref 1 and directly compare it to R3 or LS50M or LS50WII to speak any more intelligently on this topic. Good thing is that KEF gave us many price/performance options so each of us can find something within our budget.

 

[Daka]

I did. Please own both, understand the difference and then come to conclusion.

Well you didn’t have modern R nor LS50 meta. R500 and R5 there is noticeable difference as well as with LSX.
Between those I would not disagree with you on on a bigger difference at all.
While I haven’t owned reference I have heard it.
But take it from someone who loves KEF does own Reference 3 like yourself and saying there isn’t much difference between them and metas apart from LF of course:

It’s all I need to know. Especially mind it’s not easy to admit that when you spend that kind of money on a system. Btw even KEF numbers show bigger distortion on Reference line vs LS50 meta so something that is rather important as far as analytical speaker goes.

 

[bo_knows]

Well you didn’t have modern R nor LS50 meta. R500 and R5 there is noticeable difference as well as with LSX.
Between those I would not disagree with you on on a bigger difference at all.

I just revised my response. I see your point and no reason to inject any more of my comments. Please carry on.

 

[Daka]

I just revised my response. I see your point and no reason to inject any more of my comments. Please carry on.

No worries. In the end we all have different preferences and as long as we are happy with our choices that what matters most
I hope not I’m offending any reference owners either, it’s just personal perspective while being a happy owner of KEF system.

 

[Daka]

I just revised my response. I see your point and no reason to inject any more of my comments. Please carry on.

Also thinking about comparison you made - there was a time before new R lineup where the difference between reference and rest was much bigger and hence better value. Now with updated Reference line with new Uniq and metamaterial this might be the case again - difference in sound quality to be more than noticeable.

 

[Descartes]

Also thinking about comparison you made - there was a time before new R lineup where the difference between reference and rest was much bigger and hence better value. Now with updated Reference line with new Uniq and metamaterial this might be the case again - difference in sound quality to be more than noticeable.

Until the R series gets updated!