KEF R6 Meta Bass Performance, Dirac Live ART, and Phantom Center Channel

[NanoGuidingStar]

I have a 7.2.2-channel system in a small room measuring 390 cm × 390 cm × 250 cm (L × W × H). My current LCR speakers are ELAC Carina bookshelf speakers and matching center channel. I'm planning to upgrade my LCR speakers, and one option I'm seriously considering is using two KEF R6 Meta speakers in a vertical orientation as the FRONT left ,right channels and Phantom Center. My reasons are as follows:

1. Very short listening distances in a small room.
   My current front left/right speakers are approximately 170 cm away from my listening position, while the center channel is about 150 cm away. If I switch to three KEF R6 Metas, all of these distances would be reduced by another 20 cm. In other words, the center speaker would end up only 130 cm from my seat, making it even more prominent than the front speakers. In addition, its placement would be almost at knee height, causing the sound to appear as though it is coming from below. (In fact, I already experience dialogue localization that seems lower than the screen.) I would like to improve this issue without raising the height of my TV.
2. Single-user room with a fixed listening position.
   I am the only person using the room, and my seat is always at the dead center, so off-axis performance is not a major concern for me.
3. Speakers must be placed very close to the wall (<15 cm).
   Because of the room layout, the speakers will be positioned extremely close to the front wall. For this reason, sealed or passive-radiator designs seem like a better fit.
4. Home theater is the primary use case.
   My main priority is movie and home theater performance. I would like stronger dynamics and lower bass distortion. For Music, I prefer a strong center imaging instead of a wide but diffused soundstage.

Given these requirements, would a pair of KEF R6 Metas used with a phantom center channel be a suitable solution for my LCR setup?

In addition, I would like to understand the real-world bass performance of the R6 Meta. If anyone has measurements of the speaker's in-room response, I would greatly appreciate it if you could share them. This is relevant because it affects the F-Support Low that the R6 Meta could provide to support other speaker groups in Dirac Live ART.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[staticV3]

a small room measuring 390 m × 390 m × 250 m

lol

If anyone has measurements of the speaker's in-room response, I would greatly appreciate it if you could share them.

Someone else's in-room response is of little use for you, because that's not your room.

Here's a better approach:

Open REW's Room Sim tool, turn off the Sub and the 80Hz crossover, then set the Left/Right speakers to 80Hz Ported which matches the R6M's roll-off (yes I know it's sealed).

Then plug in your room dimensions and drag the speakers and MLP to where they'd be in real life.

Boom, now you have the R6M's bass response in your room.

Next you can generate a measurement of this sim and play with it in the main window.

Edit:

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

lol

My bad, it's centimeter.

 

[JRowland]

Here’s mine, similar enough to that simulator pic ironically about 40Hz. That’s my FS Low in ART for it.

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

Here’s mine, similar enough to that simulator pic ironically about 40Hz. That’s my FS Low in ART for it.

View attachment 551548

Thank you for providing the Dirac In-Room Response measurement graphs. Based on your setup, there appears to be a fairly deep dip in the center channel response between 90 Hz ~160 Hz. ART should be able to provide a significant improvement in this frequency range and help address the deficiency. However, I'd like to confirm a few additional details:

1. How far is your R6 Meta positioned from the wall?
2. When you switch Dirac to Bass Management or Bass Control, what crossover frequency does the software recommend for the R6 Meta?

As a side note, judging from the measurement graphs, if it were my system, I would not set the R6 Meta's FSL below 70 Hz.

 

[Marc v E]

I have a 7.2.2-channel system in a small room measuring 390 cm × 390 cm × 250 cm (L × W × H). My current LCR speakers are ELAC Carina bookshelf speakers and matching center channel. I'm planning to upgrade my LCR speakers, and one option I'm seriously considering is using two KEF R6 Meta speakers in a vertical orientation as the FRONT left ,right channels and Phantom Center. My reasons are as follows:

1. Very short listening distances in a small room.
   My current front left/right speakers are approximately 170 cm away from my listening position, while the center channel is about 150 cm away. If I switch to three KEF R6 Metas, all of these distances would be reduced by another 20 cm. In other words, the center speaker would end up only 130 cm from my seat, making it even more prominent than the front speakers. In addition, its placement would be almost at knee height, causing the sound to appear as though it is coming from below. (In fact, I already experience dialogue localization that seems lower than the screen.) I would like to improve this issue without raising the height of my TV.
2. Single-user room with a fixed listening position.
   I am the only person using the room, and my seat is always at the dead center, so off-axis performance is not a major concern for me.
3. Speakers must be placed very close to the wall (<15 cm).
   Because of the room layout, the speakers will be positioned extremely close to the front wall. For this reason, sealed or passive-radiator designs seem like a better fit.
4. Home theater is the primary use case.
   My main priority is movie and home theater performance. I would like stronger dynamics and lower bass distortion. For Music, I prefer a strong center imaging instead of a wide but diffused soundstage.

Given these requirements, would a pair of KEF R6 Metas used with a phantom center channel be a suitable solution for my LCR setup?

In addition, I would like to understand the real-world bass performance of the R6 Meta. If anyone has measurements of the speaker's in-room response, I would greatly appreciate it if you could share them. This is relevant because it affects the F-Support Low that the R6 Meta could provide to support other speaker groups in Dirac Live ART.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Especially if your main focus is home cinema I would always use a center channel.
Two channel with more bass output and higher spl doesn't make sense to me in such a relatively small room.
If would demo lyngdorf speakers as they're quite uniquely placed direct against the wall. Or use multiple subwoofers with standmounts.

Personally I would try to wall mount some genelecs, like the G3 or G4 and use another brand subs to integrate them. They hardly take up any room. You may want to check out if they reach the spl you're aiming for as that is their main constraint with amps build in.

 

[JRowland]

Thank you for providing the Dirac In-Room Response measurement graphs. Based on your setup, there appears to be a fairly deep dip in the center channel response between 90 Hz ~160 Hz. ART should be able to provide a significant improvement in this frequency range and help address the deficiency. However, I'd like to confirm a few additional details:

1. How far is your R6 Meta positioned from the wall?
2. When you switch Dirac to Bass Management or Bass Control, what crossover frequency does the software recommend for the R6 Meta?

As a side note, judging from the measurement graphs, if it were my system, I would not set the R6 Meta's FSL below 70 Hz.

1. No wall, it is about 24" in front of a window

2. No idea, I've only used ART. Audyssey hit it at 40Hz if that helps.

Even though I offer 40Hz to ART (self support only) it declines and uses my 3 subs, ART "crosses it over" at 90Hz as you can see here

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Why the R6s and not R3 Metas or the R series towers?

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

Why the R6s and not R3 Metas or the R series towers?

Hi, Tower speakers are difficult to accommodate in my small room. With bookshelf or MTM speakers, I have more flexibility—I can place them on smaller stands, on a cabinet, or even on top of subwoofers with IsoAcoustics.

The R3 Meta is definitely one of the options I’m considering. However, taking into account the THD and IMD figures at 96 dB, or even 102 dB, as well as dynamic compression, I would still prioritize the R6 Meta, mainly because it has two woofers.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Hi, Tower speakers are difficult to accommodate in my small room. With bookshelf or MTM speakers, I have more flexibility—I can place them on smaller stands, on a cabinet, or even on top of subwoofers with IsoAcoustics.

The R3 Meta is definitely one of the options I’m considering. However, taking into account the THD and IMD figures at 96 dB, or even 102 dB, as well as dynamic compression, I would still prioritize the R6 Meta, mainly because it has two woofers.

I just checked on spinorama.org:

R2C (Erin's Audio Corner): https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF R2c/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac-horizontal.html
R6C (Kef): https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF R6C Meta/KEF/index_vendor-v2.html
R3 Meta (Erin's Audio Corner): https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF R3 Meta/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac-v1-ported-0-degree.html

I would get the R3 Metas because the centre channels have a stepper roll off below 100hz.

Nowadays with EQ software with ART I prioritise smooth directivity and a decent F3 preferably below 50hz.

 

[Ruediger]

The R3 Meta is definitely one of the options I’m considering. However, taking into account the THD and IMD figures at 96 dB, or even 102 dB, as well as dynamic compression, I would still prioritize the R6 Meta, mainly because it has two woofers.

I have an R2 Meta as center and think it is great. Need it to be near the wall and it is friendly to that as a closed design. I can imagine these or the R6 Metas as LCR. But only with one or two subwoofers and probably not crossed over at 80 but more like 100Hz. Bass performance is not something I would specifically ask from them.

But you have two subwoofers? Not a problem then. Why not decide over the best sound (subjective).

 

[singular]

KEF R6 meta Measurements and Review

Hi, again. This time, it's KEF's R6 meta. Impedance Frequency Response It's pretty flat except for some of the HF above 10 kHz. The bass extension is 70.7 Hz (-6 dB) with -14dB/oct slope. Nearfield Measurements Directivity Overall, it's a very smooth and well-controlled...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[singular]

Crossed-over at 500Hz...could be audible off-axis for horizontal positioned R6 front channels.

 

[Sheng]

Here is my 7.4.6 system setup.

My room dimensions are approximately 400cm (W) x 600cm (L) x 300cm (H).
All speakers are placed very close to the walls, within 15cm of boundary clearance.
My main listening position (MLP) is a near-field setup, about 2 meters away from the 77"TV.

I'm running the Denon X6800H strictly as a preamp/processor and have the Dirac Live ART license active.
For the center channel, I'm using the KEF R6 Meta, while the rest of the channels are a mix-and-match of different brands.
(The height speakers are all identical, while the other surrounds consist of matched pairs.)
The R6 Meta is powered by a Topping B200 mono amp, and the other channels are driven by NCX500 amps.
(I actually did a direct comparison between the B200 and NCX500 on the R6 Meta, and the B200 fits my sound preference much better).
For the target curve, I'm using the StormAudio LCR curve with a +3dB boost on the center channel.

Regarding Dirac ART settings, my LCR speakers do not act as support speakers for other channels; they only handle their own audio.
After running the ART calibration, I use a Y-cable to split the signal 1-to-2 from my most powerful subwoofer to feed my Bass Shaker (so this signal is not a native LFE feed).

I'm not very good with REW, so I can only share my Dirac charts with you.
In my opinion, as long as the subwoofers are capable and powerful enough, relying solely on them for Dirac ART calibration can yield excellent results.

Please excuse my English, as I am relying on a translation tool to write this post.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

View attachment 554199


Here is my 7.4.6 system setup.

My room dimensions are approximately 400cm (W) x 600cm (L) x 300cm (H).
All speakers are placed very close to the walls, within 15cm of boundary clearance.
My main listening position (MLP) is a near-field setup, about 2 meters away from the 77"TV.

I'm running the Denon X6800H strictly as a preamp/processor and have the Dirac Live ART license active.
For the center channel, I'm using the KEF R6 Meta, while the rest of the channels are a mix-and-match of different brands.
(The height speakers are all identical, while the other surrounds consist of matched pairs.)
The R6 Meta is powered by a Topping B200 mono amp, and the other channels are driven by NCX500 amps.
(I actually did a direct comparison between the B200 and NCX500 on the R6 Meta, and the B200 fits my sound preference much better).
For the target curve, I'm using the StormAudio LCR curve with a +3dB boost on the center channel.

Regarding Dirac ART settings, my LCR speakers do not act as support speakers for other channels; they only handle their own audio.
After running the ART calibration, I use a Y-cable to split the signal 1-to-2 from my most powerful subwoofer to feed my Bass Shaker (so this signal is not a native LFE feed).

I'm not very good with REW, so I can only share my Dirac charts with you.
In my opinion, as long as the subwoofers are capable and powerful enough, relying solely on them for Dirac ART calibration can yield excellent results.

Please excuse my English, as I am relying on a translation tool to write this post.

How does this sound? I just checked spinorama.org and the Kef R6C Meta starts to roll off at 100hz and I'd be surprised if it can get down to 20hz. Unless I am misinterpreting the Dirac graphs.......

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

How does this sound? I just checked spinorama.org and the Kef R6C Meta starts to roll off at 100hz and I'd be surprised if it can get down to 20hz. Unless I am misinterpreting the Dirac graphs.......

Haha, you probably had the same first reaction I did when you saw this graph: why are the mid and high frequencies boosted by about 3 dB? Normally, only the bass range below 150 Hz is adjusted, while the mid and high frequencies are usually kept aligned with the 0 dB reference line, with a gradual roll-off applied above around 10 kHz depending on the speaker's characteristics and personal preference.

I did some research and found that StormAudio's target curve is designed in a similar way. I'm not sure what the OP's intention was, though.

In any case, thanks Sheng for sharing this.

 

[Sheng]

How does this sound? I just checked spinorama.org and the Kef R6C Meta starts to roll off at 100hz and I'd be surprised if it can get down to 20hz. Unless I am misinterpreting the Dirac graphs.......

The R6 Meta can't hit 20Hz on its own. It's mostly the room acoustics at play.
It sounds pretty good to me after the calibration.

Haha, you probably had the same first reaction I did when you saw this graph: why are the mid and high frequencies boosted by about 3 dB? Normally, only the bass range below 150 Hz is adjusted, while the mid and high frequencies are usually kept aligned with the 0 dB reference line, with a gradual roll-off applied above around 10 kHz depending on the speaker's characteristics and personal preference.

I did some research and found that StormAudio's target curve is designed in a similar way. I'm not sure what the OP's intention was, though.

In any case, thanks Sheng for sharing this.

View attachment 554201

Since Denon and Marantz disabled the independent channel volume adjustment feature after Dirac Live ART in a previous update, I can no longer simply boost my center channel by 3dB as I used to. Because of this, I had no choice but to adjust it via the target curve instead.

 

[Denon545]

The R6 Meta can't hit 20Hz on its own. It's mostly the room acoustics at play.
It sounds pretty good to me after the calibration.



Since Denon and Marantz disabled the independent channel volume adjustment feature after Dirac Live ART in a previous update, I can no longer simply boost my center channel by 3dB as I used to. Because of this, I had no choice but to adjust it via the target curve instead.

There has been some discussion on AVS forums that Denon/Marantz will provide two files that you can transfer to the AVR to rollback the latest update. This will allow you to adjust the trim levels as you did before the update. Contact Denon support (usually via chat option) and ask for those two files to rollback your AVR.

Edit- Be sure to turn off automatic updates!