KEF R3 Speaker Review

[VintageFlanker]

Haem...

Now, since both reviews are published, I would probably pick the R3 over the S400. Plus, I just got an offer from a French retailer at... 1275€/pair (New, whatever finish).

Hard to don't pull the trigger...

 

[digitalfrost]

For that kind of money, even I would consider them, and I already own too many speakers including LS50

 

[tecnogadget]

Haem...

Now, since both reviews are published, I would probably pick the R3 over the S400. Plus, I just got an offer from a French retailer at... 1275€/pair (New, whatever finish).

Hard to don't pull the trigger...

Go for It ! Its a great deal, worth every penny.

 

[ironhorse128]

What do you guys think would be a good but affordable amp to drive the R3? I am a bit cautious to pull the trigger as the R3s seems to be hard to drive. I am just not sure my xtz a2 300 will be sufficient.

 

[BYRTT]

Haem...

Now, since both reviews are published, I would probably pick the R3 over the S400. Plus, I just got an offer from a French retailer at... 1275€/pair (New, whatever finish).

Hard to don't pull the trigger...

Can below same scale comparisons help decisions ..

Based on anechoic responses is listening window EQ'ed flat in below because that is more seats than one seat of the on axis response, CTA2034 listening window call for +/- 30deg horizontals and +/- 10 deg verticals, the EQ smoothing also works as normalizing filter in we get easyer way to see only the imperfections that else would drown in all the warts.

 

[digitalfrost]

What do you guys think would be a good but affordable amp to drive the R3? I am a bit cautious to pull the trigger as the R3s seems to be hard to drive. I am just not sure my xtz a2 300 will be sufficient.

Affordable is a matter of perspective. I think anything that can output 200W/8ohms should be sufficient for whatever you're gonna drive. If it's not, you probably own the wrong speakers, not the wrong amp. Looking the market and seeing you're ok with power amplifiers, I'd look at:

- Rotel RB-1582 MKII
- Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
- NAD M22 (see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-nad-m27-pwr-amp.9036/ )

I you wanna stay class D, there's a lot of companies offering affordable nCore NC500 or Purify modules. And while it doesn't have the power, don't disregard the Benchmark AHB2.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ass-d-stereo-purifi-2x400w-4-ohm-p-14393.html

Somethings like this is probably hard to beat for the money.

 

[aarons915]

For reference of what I mean, my measurements vs the klippels:
View attachment 54014(the dips are also present in all my in-room measurements too at different distances so don't think it's a quasi-anechoic artefact).

I've been wondering about some of the discrepancies lately as well, my own in room measurements of the R3 are very similar to yours. I've also been going back and forth on whether to use the Soundstage listening window or the ASR LW to EQ my LS50's in the highs and it seems that the Soundstage measurement is more trustworthy based on my own in room measurements showing a clear peak at 2k vs the 5k peak shown on the Klippel. Of course I'm not saying my in-room measurement is anywhere near the accuracy of the Klippels but spatially averaged measurements should be fairly close to the early reflections curve above the transition frequency. Attached my R3 spatially averaged in-room response in orange and my LS50 in purple.

 

[napilopez]

I've been wondering about some of the discrepancies lately as well, my own in room measurements of the R3 are very similar to yours. I've also been going back and forth on whether to use the Soundstage listening window or the ASR LW to EQ my LS50's in the highs and it seems that the Soundstage measurement is more trustworthy based on my own in room measurements showing a clear peak at 2k vs the 5k peak shown on the Klippel. Of course I'm not saying my in-room measurement is anywhere near the accuracy of the Klippels but spatially averaged measurements should be fairly close to the early reflections curve above the transition frequency. Attached my R3 spatially averaged in-room response in orange and my LS50 in purple.

Yeah, I think we'll just have to keep an eye out for potential differences going forward and allow more flexibility. I seem to have lucked out that in that all my quasi anechoic measurements match soundstage network's almost to the dB among the upper half of frequencies, as I showed with four speakers in this post:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...r-62-speaker-review.12232/page-22#post-378576

If we include the R11, which has the same Uni-Q unit as the the R3, then that's 5 lol:

 

[BsdKurt]

Affordable is a matter of perspective. I think anything that can output 200W/8ohms should be sufficient for whatever you're gonna drive. If it's not, you probably own the wrong speakers, not the wrong amp. Looking the market and seeing you're ok with power amplifiers, I'd look at:

- Rotel RB-1582 MKII
- Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
- NAD M22 (see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-nad-m27-pwr-amp.9036/ )

I you wanna stay class D, there's a lot of companies offering affordable nCore NC500 or Purify modules. And while it doesn't have the power, don't disregard the Benchmark AHB2.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ass-d-stereo-purifi-2x400w-4-ohm-p-14393.html

Somethings like this is probably hard to beat for the money.

Would 200W/8ohms would still be needed if combined with a subwoofer and a high pass filter at say 60hz? That would cut out a significant amount of required power to drive this, yes?

 

[digitalfrost]

Would 200W/8ohms would still be needed if combined with a subwoofer and a high pass filter at say 60hz? That would cut out a significant amount of required power to drive this, yes?

Absolutely not. I chose 200W/8ohms as a kinda 'if that doesn't cut it you have other problems' kind of spec. Everyone's volume requirements are different. We all know Amir likes his volume, I listen at 78-86dBC for the most part and I can tell you I've hardly seen anything over 10W for the satellites crossed over at 100hz. No matter what they might be.

As for the original question, the XTZ amp is probably fine for the R3, I mean what you're trying to do? Yes it dips to 3ohm at 50hz, but really, what is the problem here?

 

[BsdKurt]

Absolutely not. I chose 200W/8ohms as a kinda 'if that doesn't cut it you have other problems' kind of spec. Everyone's volume requirements are different. We all know Amir likes his volume, I listen at 78-86dBC for the most part and I can tell you I've hardly seen anything over 10W for the satellites crossed over at 100hz. No matter what they might be.

As for the original question, the XTZ amp is probably fine for the R3, I mean what you're trying to do? Yes it dips to 3ohm at 50hz, but really, what is the problem here?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply your response was incorrect. I was curious as to the power requirements when combined with a subwoofer for my own situation. I have a new 3.1 setup: R3's for front L/R and R2c for center combined with a Denon x3600h (167 W @ 4 ohms, 108 W @ 8 ohms). I wasn't intending on using external amplification. I'm still waiting on receipt of the Denon so I haven't heard for myself how it will sound.

 

[digitalfrost]

https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amplifier-power-is-required.10781/post-301968

Check these links. You probably don't need a lot of power at all.

 

[jmbgator]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply your response was incorrect. I was curious as to the power requirements when combined with a subwoofer for my own situation. I have a new 3.1 setup: R3's for front L/R and R2c for center combined with a Denon x3600h (167 W @ 4 ohms, 108 W @ 8 ohms). I wasn't intending on using external amplification. I'm still waiting on receipt of the Denon so I haven't heard for myself how it will sound.

FWIW, I have a very similar set up as you. I have a 3.1 setup also with the R3's and R2c paired with a Denon x4500h. The Denon had no problems playing the speakers. Eventually, I bought a 3-channel Monoprice Monolith 200watt per channel amp, but to be honest I didn't really notice much of a difference than when they were connected to the AVR directly. The amp does however give me greater peace of mind for the increased dynamics and headroom when movie watching. I'd say that as long as your listening to them at normal listening levels you should be ok with the Denon. Don't go out blasting them at max volume and you'll be ok, but I'd say that for any speaker.

 

[ironhorse128]

Affordable is a matter of perspective. I think anything that can output 200W/8ohms should be sufficient for whatever you're gonna drive. If it's not, you probably own the wrong speakers, not the wrong amp. Looking the market and seeing you're ok with power amplifiers, I'd look at:

- Rotel RB-1582 MKII
- Cambridge Audio Azur 851W
- NAD M22 (see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-nad-m27-pwr-amp.9036/ )

I you wanna stay class D, there's a lot of companies offering affordable nCore NC500 or Purify modules. And while it doesn't have the power, don't disregard the Benchmark AHB2.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ass-d-stereo-purifi-2x400w-4-ohm-p-14393.html

Somethings like this is probably hard to beat for the money.

@digitalfrost: Thanks for your reply. The amps you listed (I had to look them up) all seem to be pretty amazing and I would have no doubt these amps would drive the R3s really well.

You said that dips to 3 Ohms would not make the R3s hard to drive. The R3s dip down to 3 Ohms as 42 hz and again at about 150hz. I would cross them over at 100hz. So the first dip would not be an concern for me. Currently I want do decide between the DBR-62 and the R3s. I'm still in doubt. I am sure the R3s are pretty amazing. I will get them in case I can find a good deal.

 

[Pepperjack]

So, currently have the r5, need to compare to my unifi, LS50 and focal 926 ( using Denon x3300w) however my wife dislikes the white so definitely returning it, open to other suggestions particularly actives. picked up my first preamp a Nile si 2100...is that any good for these?

My main question is though, what was the “fix” shouldn’t it be explained here somewhere?

 

[VintageFlanker]

I you wanna stay class D, there's a lot of companies offering affordable nCore NC500 or Purify modules. And while it doesn't have the power, don't disregard the Benchmark AHB2.

Mentioning the AHB2 in the same paragraph may be misleading. This one is not Class D!

however my wife dislikes the white so definitely returning it, open to other suggestions particularly actives.

If you like how it sounds, why don't you just buy the R5 with another finish... ?

picked up my first preamp a Nile si 2100...is that any good for these?

AFAIK, this preamp (looks more to an amp to me) haven't been measured here (nor elsewhere?), so we can't tell about the objective performance. Looking at the specs, Nile doesn't even mention THD, which is a first warning sign to me.

My main question is though, what was the “fix

You mean the fix mentioned by @amirm in F35 review?

 

[Pepperjack]

Mentioning the AHB2 in the same paragraph may be misleading. This one is not Class D!

If you like how it sounds, why don't you just buy the R5 with another finish... ?

AFAIK, this preamp (looks more to an amp to me) haven't been measured here (nor elsewhere?), so we can't tell about the objective performance. Looking at the specs, Nile doesn't even mention THD, which is a first warning sign to me.

You mean the fix mentioned by @amirm in F35 review?

I may be misusing preamp, I only just started reading about this once I decided I was unhappy with the Unifi.
I am debating getting the r3 instead and using the money difference on a subwoofer-though certainly switching finishes is a serious open. I was originally under the impression ls50 would be better for that vs the r3, but am unclear on that now.

msi many other options I’ve spent a lot of time reading now....

I will upload a picture of the manual I believe it does spell out thd.

 

[Pepperjack]

Mentioning the AHB2 in the same paragraph may be misleading. This one is not Class D!

If you like how it sounds, why don't you just buy the R5 with another finish... ?

AFAIK, this preamp (looks more to an amp to me) haven't been measured here (nor elsewhere?), so we can't tell about the objective performance. Looking at the specs, Nile doesn't even mention THD, which is a first warning sign to me.

You mean the fix mentioned by @amirm in F35 review?

I have attached it here. It is an amplifier haha...yikes. I have tested it with just the x3300w and with this and while I think it’s was better with it, the truth is that by the time I have switched the cables, restarted everything, started the song and am setting the same decibel volume off my phone app I have to check my notes for what decibel it was before. So thinking I actually remember these fine details well enough to be sure I am not just biased since I want to find something to makes things better...well, I’m not confident that it isn’t just bias.

And yes, the op said he found a fix that resolved the testing preference is issue, teased it, then posted the reason in a separate thread? It sounded like it just needed eq applied or did I miss something?

 

[VintageFlanker]

I have tested it with just the x3300w and with this and while I think it’s was better with it, the truth is that by the time I have switched the cables, restarted everything, started the song and am setting the same decibel volume off my phone app I have to check my notes for what decibel it was before. So thinking I actually remember these fine details well enough to be sure I am not just biased since I want to find something to makes things better...well, I’m not conf

Since this is sight listening, there IS bias, even level-matched. The expectation to get one sounding better than the other, for example!

It sounded like it just needed eq applied or did I miss something?

Yep. it is exactly described as it is in F35 review.

Thanks for the specs. Perhaps you would send your Nile 2100 to @amirm fir review?

 

[Pepperjack]

Since this is sight listening, there IS bias, even level-matched. The expectation to get one sounding better than the other, for example!

Yep. it is exactly described as it is in F35 review.

Thanks for the specs. Perhaps you would send your Nile 2100 to @amirm fir review?

haha yea if he actually wants to I dont mind, though I haven’t determined if I will return it or not so that’s a problem but it’s just a cheap amp, was “on sale” for 350 so might not be worth the time.

but, as to the fix, I was actually looking in the f206(8?) thread, but basically it’s just because it was in a corner? Does the posts detail how close to the corner we were talking?