KEF R3 meta Measurements

[MacCali]

So would you say R7 + sub are significantly better sounding than R3 + sub?

Yea better really means fuller bass. Even without subs it, which I do not use.

I purchased both and tested them to see which I preferred more, as I said either in that post or previously. Rather than dish out 4-500 more for 7’s I could just buy a sub. I do not own a sub and most of this can be placebo or imagination or simply could be the extra driver on the R7 makes the sound stage better and I feel the dynamic capability is better.

I only bought the books cause clearly the concentric driver is the most important part. Not sure if two vs one port is playing any role in this. But I’m definitely keeping my R7

 

[regan]

Define “better”.

More awesome

 

[muad]

Yea better really means fuller bass. Even without subs it, which I do not use.

I purchased both and tested them to see which I preferred more, as I said either in that post or previously. Rather than dish out 4-500 more for 7’s I could just buy a sub. I do not own a sub and most of this can be placebo or imagination or simply could be the extra driver on the R7 makes the sound stage better and I feel the dynamic capability is better.

I only bought the books cause clearly the concentric driver is the most important part. Not sure if two vs one port is playing any role in this. But I’m definitely keeping my R7

So to be clear, you haven't tried either speaker with subs?

 

[MacCali]

So to be clear, you haven't tried either speaker with subs?

Yes this is correct. But the R7 sounds good without a sub. You can find the measurements of the R7 and clearly the bass region is definitely more elevated. I can’t tell for certain but the slope on the R7 seems lower as well meaning even when it falls off the bass is better

The building I live in is old as heck, and when I put a sub in the room it makes the door get sucked in and out with driver excursion[sub]. Making an annoying sound. Room is too small and it’s getting overloaded

 

[muad]

The building I live in is old as heck, and when I put a sub in the room it makes the door get sucked in and out with driver excursion[sub]. Making an annoying sound. Room is too small and it’s getting overloaded

Oh wow, that is crazy.

I was planning on using my R3 meta with duak subs. I'm going to assume that the subs should be good to get me most of the way to the R7

 

[bodhi]

Oh wow, that is crazy.

I was planning on using my R3 meta with duak subs. I'm going to assume that the subs should be good to get me most of the way to the R7

Yes. Very large room and high volume listening are conditions when you should be looking at the floorstanders instead of R3.

 

[Pudik]

Given its size, the R3 meta has an excellent bass response (FR).

However, to achieve this beautiful bandwidth, the KEF uses ports, which lose a bit of their power at high SPL.

I respect the design of KEF's engineers.

However, contrary to the impression you might get from the FR graph, this speaker is a bit weak on momentary peaks, such as movie explosions.

Again, this is an unnecessary nitpicking about a good enough loudspeaker.

A 'good enough speaker' is not a great speaker. Why the raving? P.

 

[Pudik]

This review shows that different quality of the drive units makes all the difference - this speaker has apparently better motors in the uniQ driver than the old R3.

Seems to me you like Rachmaninov. So do too. But i m writing to you b/c you seem to look at music from a different angle. Can i buy speakers based on measurements? Let us see whether that's a good jump. For, it looks as though ppl on this site are running for bass, bass, and more bass. If one wants that much bass from bookshelves, then buy a subwoofer, and you have it made. A small speaker simply does not have the surface area to produce deep bass. Perhaps, good enough base, at the most.

Most important to me is clarity. What i mean by that is: can the speaker reproduce richly harmonized piano chords where one can distinguish every note separately and effortlessly? Is hammer noise and 'box' noise audible? In case of violin music, do i clearly hear arco bow and attack noise, as well as, again, box noise? Do i hear air noise coming out of a trumpet or the rasp of the string base? Mallet noises, etc. And, finally, do i hear an orchestra smoothly and m i going to enjoy the colors of different instruments, such as oboes without distortions?

After looking over measurements (i have background in electronics and strong background in computers) i have to confess, i still don't know what to buy. Surely, aural perception is HIGHLY subjective; agree with everyone who says that. I am just trying to take a decision. Living in the middle of nowhere, i'll have to travel to listen and make up my mind. Some people here see the measurement and say 'i m now ready to buy' this or that speaker. Is this a good way to take decisions? Simply revving up a speaker till one's ears burst, is, imho, not the most optimal criterion to listen to music 'to get the bass', or anything else for that matter.

Sorry, i didn't mean to sound high-brow. Yours, Pudik.

 

[fineMen]

After looking over measurements (i have background in electronics and strong background in computers) i have to confess, i still don't know what to buy.

I like your high-brow attempt. Get you a set of R3s (old model) for about 500Euros each and add two subs. With some background in speaker building I would say there's nothing more to be desired. I had it all, esoteric drivers, magnetostats, huge horn loaded monitors very much like, maybe even better than JBL's M3, the middle range 3-way etc pp.

 

[MacCali]

Oh wow, that is crazy.

I was planning on using my R3 meta with duak subs. I'm going to assume that the subs should be good to get me most of the way to the R7

As Nuyes pointed out as well, I noticed the same thing with dynamic range. Seems like the R7 makes it easy to really perceive the difference between high and low sounds and on top of that this isn’t with movies. Talking strictly about music vs the R3

Another factor I mentioned earlier as well on this thread.

Also as pointed out I wouldn’t doubt that the bass drivers have not been changed and only differences between the meta and regular is the higher frequency range differences.

I’m not sure if this part is 100% accurate but it might be, correct me if I’m wrong.

I wonder if it’s possible to just purchase the meta driver and install it into the r3 or r7. I would think not a lot is that different crossover wise and you can probably easily save a 1000. Guessing they would cost 3-400 a pop

 

[muad]

As Nuyes pointed out as well, I noticed the same thing with dynamic range. Seems like the R7 makes it easy to really perceive the difference between high and low sounds and on top of that this isn’t with movies. Talking strictly about music vs the R3

Another factor I mentioned earlier as well on this thread.

Also as pointed out I wouldn’t doubt that the bass drivers have not been changed and only differences between the meta and regular is the higher frequency range differences.

I’m not sure if this part is 100% accurate but it might be, correct me if I’m wrong.

I wonder if it’s possible to just purchase the meta driver and install it into the r3 or r7. I would think not a lot is that different crossover wise and you can probably easily save a 1000. Guessing they would cost 3-400 a pop

When you say sounds, do you mean the bass region only? I'm trying to think why there would be any difference above 100hz.

The only other plausible explanation is that the R7 activates room modes differently than the R3. Depending on the height you had your r3s as well as the R7 having 2 drivers spaced apart.

I had the old r3, and I never noticed any dynamic range issues. I just didn't enjoy the treble upper mid issues.

 

[MacCali]

The R7’s on Kef website are a 1000 each R11 1500 each

 

[Streamc]

When you say sounds, do you mean the bass region only? I'm trying to think why there would be any difference above 100hz.

The only other plausible explanation is that the R7 activates room modes differently than the R3. Depending on the height you had your r3s as well as the R7 having 2 drivers spaced apart.

I had the old r3, and I never noticed any dynamic range issues. I just didn't enjoy the treble upper mid issues.

Meta version do not have treble issues.

 

[muad]

Meta version do not have treble issues.

Yeah we are talking about the OG R3 and R7

I have a pair of metas in the mail

 

[muad]

As Nuyes pointed out as well, I noticed the same thing with dynamic range. Seems like the R7 makes it easy to really perceive the difference between high and low sounds and on top of that this isn’t with movies. Talking strictly about music vs the R3

Another factor I mentioned earlier as well on this thread.

Also as pointed out I wouldn’t doubt that the bass drivers have not been changed and only differences between the meta and regular is the higher frequency range differences.

I’m not sure if this part is 100% accurate but it might be, correct me if I’m wrong.

I wonder if it’s possible to just purchase the meta driver and install it into the r3 or r7. I would think not a lot is that different crossover wise and you can probably easily save a 1000. Guessing they would cost 3-400 a pop

Looking back at nuyes posts, he was referring to the compression in bass region specifically. Something a sub will fully negate.

I find it interesting how often people add a sub to their system, and note how much more full, expansive and larger the sound becomes. Must be something to that.

 

[Mnyb]

Hmm , sub won’t fix midbass slam so “ better bass “ migth be above the usual xover for subs

A sub would considerably lighten the load of the main speakers so they can go louder with less distortion.

So I’m considering R7 or R11 with dual subs or LS60’s with dual subs

 

[muad]

Hmm , sub won’t fix midbass slam so “ better bass “ migth be above the usual xover for subs

A sub would considerably lighten the load of the main speakers so they can go older with less distortion.

So I’m considering R7 or R11 with dual subs or LS60’s with dual subs

I thought chest slam was <100hz

Bass: the Physical Sensation of Sound

Ever wonder why you can feel bass? We take a look behind the science of bass waves and the tactile sensations that they cause. Our bass experiments were quite revealing but don't try them at home.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Streamc]

Yeah we are talking about the OG R3 and R7

I have a pair of metas in the mail

But from measurement point it is really interesting to know why sound of R3 Meta differs from original R3? Where is it on graphics? I mean real difference nor difference error or assumption.

 

[muad]

But from measurement point it is really interesting to know why sound of R3 Meta differs from original R3? Where is it on graphics? I mean real difference nor difference error or assumption.

It's similar to the ls50 vs ls50 metas. The adjustment to the crossover point and the tweeter level are likely to yield the biggest audible change between the OG and meta models.

The directivity is unchanged with between the R3 and R3 meta. No longer is there a broadband low amplitude rise above 2 khz. The 3khz peak has been tamed. The early reflections are now almost perfect on the R3 meta. This will account for the largest audible difference. Who can say if the other improvements can be heard. Pretty much need double blind testing to know for sure.

This shows what i am saying. Keep in mind the original kef measurement for R3 was not measured the same way as the new metas. Amirs measurements align more with the differences shown in the meta white paper.

The relative improvement in linearity between the mids and highs is your answer

 

[Fahzz]

Only you can decide by comparing how they sound to your ears in your room!

Thanks. I know that. Maybe my question should have been phrased better. Has anyone compared OG R3 with Meta R3 in their set up? Interested in opinions.