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KEF R3 meta Measurements

Vacceo

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I don't feel qualified enough to offer a meaningful answer to your question. That said, I will offer my subjective opinion that they would be fine with 100W but would perform better with more. I think you could invest in these and your 100W AVR will be perfectly serviceable and allow you to successfully audition the speakers. Then you can decide if you think you need more wattage.
The aspect I was worried about was impedance. Nominal is 4 ohm, but tests seem to indicate that it can go as less than 3 ohm, and that´s typically not AVR friendly. Sure, if I go for the R6 central and R7 LR, those should run on an external amp, but it seems the R3 are quite beefy.
 

JRS

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Have you heard the Helios? Hard to call it superlative without some subjective experience and honestly some real Klipple testing.
I have dabbled in interest in that speaker myself but that is a big commitment for something you will never be able to 'return'.
I am a DIY hobbyist. I have definitely built stuff I didn't truly love, including some expensive kits.

I have mad respect for Jeff Bagby(RIP) however the one speaker I made of his was not exactly what I would want now and did not measure all that well. (The PartsExpress Tango) I was able to drop the passive crossover and turn them into actives that measured and sounded much better. Now, I am using the drivers, enclosure and parts in various other projects so the $$investment still has legs and fun times.
That said, the risk of not liking the speakers is real.


How much should the screws cost? I say this light heartedly but really it has truth to me.
Parts are parts. As I am sure many realize, a person can make superb speakers with lower cost parts and bad speakers with expensive parts.

Keep in mind as well that many DIY speakers and parts are now retail/commercial products. With all the marketing and 'design' trappings in play. Some of the best design choices for DIY are still the most pedestrian.(look at the BMR, nice basic SB acoustics woofers and a very inexpensive midrange from the OEM market. Pricey tweeter though.)
Overkill bracing and more expensive crossover parts is not exactly representative of excellence or a guarantee of performance. Nor is changing active crossovers 'on the fly', each change really has to be considered & tested/explored - it is clearly faster than passive parts but it is still a process not to be underestimated.

Manufacturers in 2023 can engineer extremely good quality parts for crazy low prices and often some of these parts will appear cheesy in the hand, but are in fact quite well engineered(and vice versa with very beefy parts sometimes just being average performers despite $$). You simply can't judge a book by its cover.
Many large scale manufacturers can make extremely high performance parts at very low costs, even if ordering them outsourced from an OEM. Because it is 2023 and computer modding and other engineering tools are so powerful a very pedestrian looking driver may in fact be superbly engineered yet cost very little $$ to make. Even high value items like stamped steel baskets and even plastic baskets can outperform cast baskets of old.

In any case what a DIY buyer pays for the same performance in a driver that a large manufacturer pays is sometimes very far apart - as in I might pay $75-200 for a woofer of the same performance quality that costs JBL or KEF $10-20.

All that said I do advocate for DIY as the best way to learn and for the right person is it fun - truly something worthwhile to do. At the higher end of DIY you can save money as well.(I don't think you can save much money anymore with entry and mid level DIY project vs 'top of price class retail-when on sale prices')

If you make those Helios and feel crazy - send them in for a Klipple test. I am sure many would be curious. I know I am, they sure look like a possibly great speaker.
I may just do that; of course, I will measure them first. Part of me wants to build the speakers as a tribute to Jeff. He contributed greatly to DIY scene, and some of his freeware is quite sophisticated. Have I heard them--no. Would I like to before embarking on this mission--of course. I haven't checked all the sites, but Helios only comes up with two links--one to Meniscus Audio that sells the kits, and another to a FB page of one of the co-designers.

What leads me to believe its a solid design is Jeff's musings about the project. One he said it was his best design, and two that he had never heard a better two way. Given that he has likely heard thousands of 2 way monitors, that's quite the claim. And of course any designer is inclined to toot his own horn, but I don't think Jeff was given to hyperbole. For a friend, I have built another of his kits that use similar drivers--the Kairos which uses the 6.5" papyrus woofer and the SB 29 tweeter. What I found interesting (and Jeff and I conversed quite a bit about this--is when I tested an active version that involved cleaning up the impulse responses it was nearly indistinguishable from his passive implementation that was nearly phase perfect and used 1'st order XO's (mine were 16'th). I thought the active version would be noticeably superior. So there's that--implementing examples from the same driver line up (cost was about 750 IIRC). I plan on making mine active, but installing the passive xo's so that whoever gets them can plug and play without the need for 4 channels and the filter set to cleanup the IR.

So I'm chomping at the bit--I just don't see where I can go wrong. The only thing weird is using a 9" woofer and 1" tweeter. Here the waveguide allows crossing at 1300 Hz which would seem to be asking for trouble given the size difference, but he claimed the directivity behavior was superlative--there I think the Kipple would be very enlightening.

Are there better two ways? If so, I suspect that they cost a ton--one speaker that uses Purifi woofers and the Satori Be tweeter (no wave guide) is priced at 6.3k/pair whch seems reasonable given the retail driver cost of $1600--Salk sound--speaking of direct sales.

Worst case the drivers end up in other projects--one that comes to mind is a floorstander using the Be tweeter, the Purifi 6.5" midrange (according to T. Graveson the finest midrange he has ever heard) in a small monitor sitting on large cabs with 10" or 12" woofers.

For the Helios I like this veneer, think I'll wrap the baffle in carbon fiber.
iu
 

maty

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-> Sunday March 26, 10:30 (Netherlands)

Live Test - Bookshelf speakers - 2500 Euro per pair - Part 3


KEF R3 Meta
Elac Vela BS403
Monitor Audio Gold 100
ATC SCM11

With Pass Labs XP-12 + X150.8 / Hypex Nilai500DIY class D amp
 
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KING DRANZER

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@Nuyes Would it be better to seal the ports for Desktop Usage when set close to wall. And run a Subwoofer like Rythmik FVX12 with Low Pass set to 80Hz.

And also what Gonna be good enough DAC + AMP combo at low end.

Looking at something like Topping DX5 + Hypex NC252MP Amp. Will that work fine will it have enough power to drive these.
 

maty

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Well, I am disappointed with the sound of the KEF R3 Meta at this live test. Sound is better with Hypex Nilai500DIY but...


BTW: I have a modified KEF Q100 in my second system (sound much better than originals). They are the ones I used to listen to the live test.
 

Streamc

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Well, I am disappointed with the sound of the KEF R3 Meta at this live test. Sound is better with Hypex Nilai500DIY but...


BTW: I have a modified KEF Q100 in my second system (sound much better than originals). They are the ones I used to listen to the live test.
Were you present there?
 

maty

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No. Very good sound in the Live test.

Whoever does not detect the great differences between the speakers and amplifiers has a problem in their audio system.
 

dogmamann

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Well, I am disappointed with the sound of the KEF R3 Meta at this live test. Sound is better with Hypex Nilai500DIY but...


BTW: I have a modified KEF Q100 in my second system (sound much better than originals). They are the ones I used to listen to the live test.
Its dumb to judge sound of a speaker with YouTube video and the ears. Only measurements tell the honest picture.
 

Alexx

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I agree.

Impossible to understand how a speaker sounds through youtube video listened to on computer speakers...

A small idea can be had, but one certainly cannot choose and judge a speaker with this method.
See you soon.
 

Alexx

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The new "Meta" series is not yet available in Italy.

However, I have made arrangements that when they become available I will go to the shop with my R3 and do a direct listening test.

I think it's the best way to evaluate the differences and be able to decide which one I like more as I play...

For the graph above, I didn't understand anything either
See you soon.
 

maty

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The r meta is better than the old References from measurements. R meta is better than the old Reference.
Hence my disappointment when listening to them on Live test 3. I even asked in the chat if they were burned and yes.
 

delta76

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Hence my disappointment when listening to them on Live test 3. I even asked in the chat if they were burned and yes.
1. speaker burn in is a myth that was debunked
2. Judging a speaker by a youtube clip means you are assuming that the microphone and ADC to be perfect, and your DAC and headphone/speakers to be perfect as well, that does not even account how heavily youtube compresses the audio. you might not like how r3 meta sounds in real life and that's fine, but using youtube for speaker judgement is quite a waste of time
 

thewas

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1. speaker burn in is a myth that was debunked
2. Judging a speaker by a youtube clip means you are assuming that the microphone and ADC to be perfect, and your DAC and headphone/speakers to be perfect as well, that does not even account how heavily youtube compresses the audio. you might not like how r3 meta sounds in real life and that's fine, but using youtube for speaker judgement is quite a waste of time
Also when listening via loudspeakers you add additionally your room acoustics to the room acoustics of the recorded space.

The only way such a method can work reasonably is recording with a professional and equalised binaural recording head and then listening with appropriately equalised headphones.
 

Mnyb

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Also when listening via loudspeakers you add additionally your room acoustics to the room acoustics of the recorded space.

The only way such a method can work reasonably is recording with a professional and equalised binaural recording head and then listening with appropriately equalised headphones.
.. And even then it only presents how it sounded in that room , not yours :) but this I find very unlikely that some can accomplish in practice it seems very hard to do "equalised binaural recording head and then listening with appropriately equalised headphones." so imo its hypothetical . I just discard these listening videos..
 

maty

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It is not a myth. Not all speakers are the same, in technology, materials, design... Other things that need a long burn are BIG capacitors and tubes. The rest, with a few hours, that is it.

My KEF Q100 sounded very bad at first, without bass. I have always thought the cause is the stiff suspension. It took many hours for the bass to appear.

My second audio system (and cheap) is highly optimized, starting with the software itself (W10) to play multimedia. Not all YouTube audio has the same quality. Everyone has their tastes but the differences between the loudspeakers and, above all, in the combination with the power amplifier (Pass Labs vs Hypex Nilai500DIY, same preamp: Pass Labs X-12) are very evident in the Alpha Audio videos and some others (very few).

Of course, until they are heard in one's room (usually without acoustic treatment), one cannot be certain. Hence the convenience of being able to return them without penalty.

-> I will not comment on it again so as not to contaminate the thread further.
 
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thewas

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.. And even then it only presents how it sounded in that room , not yours :) but this I find very unlikely that some can accomplish in practice it seems very hard to do "equalised binaural recording head and then listening with appropriately equalised headphones." so imo its hypothetical . I just discard these listening videos..
Yes, also the listening impression can be different as humans automatically adapt to the room acoustics in few minutes when they are in a room which probably won't happen though a recording. About equalised binaural recordings, like you say they are unfortunately rare, but very few try to make some, like for example Oluv but even there it is still a work in progress. :)
 
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