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KEF R3 meta Measurements

Vdrum

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Do you have the KC62 or the KF92? KC92 doesn’t exit. So if you happen to have the smaller KC consider upgrading to larger the KF first maybe. If you however already have the larger KF, then yes indeed the R3 might get you a bit smoother transition as they reach a bit lower.
KF92, sorry for the mistake.
 

HarmonicTHD

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My room is around 35 sq meters, listening position 3 meters from speakers, subwoofer crossed over at 80hz and positioned next to the couch ( I know it is not ideal but that the only place available), the model is a KF92.
Thanks for sharing.

In my experience putting speakers inside such a shelve as in your case is not ideal often. Putting them on stands and moving them away from walls is advantageous. But one can only be sure by trying and ideally measuring. Especially if you put R3s in the whole thing might cause ugly resonances as the R3 reach a bit deeper

So before investing in R3, get a Umik1 measurement mic for ca 80 usd and REW for free. Measure your system and then get some speaker stands and put your speakers on them and see if that already give improvements. For sure your speakers should be higher at ear level. The measurement will also show you if and at frequency you have peaks or nulls at your listening position for the bass frequencies. Because if you put R3 in the room and happen to have null in your listening position you might not hear a difference.

The listening position right in front of the rear wall will also not be ideal. Maybe consider to put some acoustic panel behind the couch.

There are probably some more things to do.

Let us know what you think
 
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Vdrum

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I had them on stands in my previous flat. unfortunately Hong Kong is known to have one of the most expensive rental market in the world. TBH my system sounds better now than before with speakers mounted on stands but probably due to an upgrade I have made on Dirac (paid for the full spectrum subwoofer included room correction)
 

phoenixdogfan

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My room is around 35 sq meters, listening position 3 meters from speakers, subwoofer crossed over at 80hz and positioned next to the couch ( I know it is not ideal but that the only place available), the model is a KF92.
I also own Metas, and have two SVS SB 2000 subs which I cross over at 150 hz. I have Dirac Live DLBC, and I run it on my mini Computer (Mele Quieter 3). I find this system gives excellent, well integrated sound. I have the Metas on 24" Sound Anchor stands and they are roughly 2.5 feet away from any boundary. I sit 5' away from each speaker in an equilateral triangle arrangement.

I personally think, getting the speakers out into the room (and out of that nook) and on stands, and investing in something like Dirac will work wonders for your sound. I haven't heard the Meta R3's yet, but I doubt the difference between them and a well set up LS 50 Meta system in a reasonably sized room will be all that significant. If I were you, I would start with trying to optimize what is certainly a very good system before proceeding with the purchase of R3 Metas. In the event you still want the R3 Metas after making those other improvements, you will have created the layout and given yourself the expertise in system optimization to get the best out of them at that point.
 

Vdrum

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Well, given my flat furniture it is impossible to set up the speakers on stands and changing their place. Loos like I have reached the limit of improvement I can have at the moment as no other solution apart from new speakers is viable ( eg. acoustic panel, speakers placement and stands ). Perhaps I should just keep these LS and not risk make my system worse.
 

phoenixdogfan

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Well, given my flat furniture it is impossible to set up the speakers on stands and changing their place. Loos like I have reached the limit of improvement I can have at the moment as no other solution apart from new speakers is viable ( eg. acoustic panel, speakers placement and stands ). Perhaps I should just keep these LS and not risk make my system worse.
You could still find some desktop speaker stands which would elevate the speakers somewhat. Iso-Accoustics makes some excellent stands which will raise the speakers up around 8" and tilt them slightly backward which would be a tremendous help, and would fit into the floor plan you have. Have a look at these, perhaps they will work for you.

 

Snoopy

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Well, given my flat furniture it is impossible to set up the speakers on stands and changing their place. Loos like I have reached the limit of improvement I can have at the moment as no other solution apart from new speakers is viable ( eg. acoustic panel, speakers placement and stands ). Perhaps I should just keep these LS and not risk make my system worse.


Headphones :) headphones with the right equilizer, dsp.. bliss.


Maybe wait till the new DIRAC ART software is out.
 

Alexx

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This is also the beauty of this passion, discovering, evaluating and, if necessary, buying new products, but with the certainty of what needs to be done...

There are so many old speakers on the market for several years that have made legends, I don't want to say Meta is a bad speaker, it sure is better, but there is small chance that R3 is a unique speaker difficult to imitate...

When in doubt, it's better to wait and understand what we're talking about.
See you soon.
 

Vdrum

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This is also the beauty of this passion, discovering, evaluating and, if necessary, buying new products, but with the certainty of what needs to be done...

There are so many old speakers on the market for several years that have made legends, I don't want to say Meta is a bad speaker, it sure is better, but there is small chance that R3 is a unique speaker difficult to imitate...

When in doubt, it's better to wait and understand what we're talking about.
See you soon.
Well said.
 

Vdrum

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bennybbbx

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Hi,
I measured the KEF R3 meta loudspeakers this time.

These speakers have just been released, but I was able to get a pre-order sample (a pair) from an audiophile in Korea.

View attachment 266010










View attachment 266032



Despite the increase in output, there is very little increase in Multitone Distortion.
This is a strong defense against distortion.

(I envy the owner.)

great that you do multi tone distortion . this show better what happen with music in precision. how does this test exactly work ?. are you sure that this extreme peak at 98 hz does not happen because of the table and no rubber feet or foam between speakers and table ? . can you also display in % ? . a quick calc of the - 14 db to % i come ~25% at 98 hz. and what happen with this results when you look on a measure with close bass port ?

maybe this can be right because i notice on my 2 6.5 inch speakers not so good sound in this boom bass range. close port bring additional distortions on my speakers
 

Alexx

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I got the R3.

For at least two months in Italy the "Metas" are unobtainable, once they are available I have agreements with the shop and I will do a direct test with mine, if I like the Metas better I will return the R3 (obviously I lose a few euros but it doesn't matter ) and change to the new model.

I couldn't do anything else, let's see how it goes, in case I don't feel a difference I took the old series at a great price, otherwise with a small difference I'll change them.
See you soon.
 

Thrill Killer

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I had settled on the UBR62. Was going to shop in 3'ish weeks. Then I heard some R3s. And liked it very much. It was def better. But not astoundingly so. The Elac is very good and still worthy of purchase. The difference between them, UBR vs R3, would only be apparent on good set up. But not in a bad way.

So I decided to get the R3 instead. And then 3 - 4 weeks ago I noticed the R3 on sale when looking for a place to buy them from. Then I saw something on the R3 Meta. So I looked into that. And said "I'll get those ones instead."
 

dogmamann

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I had settled on the UBR62. Was going to shop in 3'ish weeks. Then I heard some R3s. And liked it very much. It was def better. But not astoundingly so. The Elac is very good and still worthy of purchase. The difference between them, UBR vs R3, would only be apparent on good set up. But not in a bad way.

So I decided to get the R3 instead. And then 3 - 4 weeks ago I noticed the R3 on sale when looking for a place to buy them from. Then I saw something on the R3 Meta. So I looked into that. And said "I'll get those ones instead."
Go once again in two years and you may settle with LS50 Meta MK 2
 

Steve Dallas

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My room is around 35 sq meters, listening position 3 meters from speakers, subwoofer crossed over at 80hz and positioned next to the couch ( I know it is not ideal but that the only place available), the model is a KF92.
The main difference will be in distortion. Being a 3 way, the R3 is a lower distortion speaker. LS50 owners deal with this by crossing higher, but with your necessary sub location, that will not work for you. Eighty to 90Hz is about as high was you would want to go. So, if distortion is a problem for you, upgrading to R3s is a viable solution.

Are the speakers hi pass filtered?

Can you add broadband absorption panels behind the TV and speakers? It needs to be at least 5" thick to work for low frequencies, but it will greatly help with SBIR in your situation.
 

Descartes

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Really looking forward to seeing Amir or Erin review, any thoughts about when it will happen?
 

Descartes

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Hi,
I measured the KEF R3 meta loudspeakers this time.

These speakers have just been released, but I was able to get a pre-order sample (a pair) from an audiophile in Korea.

View attachment 266010










Impedance

View attachment 266011View attachment 266012








Frequency response


View attachment 266013

I measure HF responses using a 5ms window gating.
Therefore, the crossover frequency of this speaker was located lower than I could measure, so I could not use the 'Merging Nearfield + Farfield' technique.


It has a similar LF roll-off to its predecessor.





View attachment 266014

Here's a comparison of 'ported vs sealed' responses.
(This was done with nearfiled measurements, with baffle step compensation applied).





Directivity



View attachment 266015View attachment 266016View attachment 266017View attachment 266018




Wow. That's really cool.

I'm noticing a huge improvement in the 15~20k compared to before.

On the outside, it looks like the exact same product as its predecessor, but the directivity definitely seems to be a step up.

While this may not be important to all users, I can't help but admire KEF's passion and skill in achieving performance improvements despite the seemingly identical design.

(Perhaps it's a fine-tuning of the lemon squeezer on tweeter?)




Beamwidth


View attachment 266019View attachment 266020


It looks as complete as anything you'll see in this price range.
(In South Korea, it's currently available for around $1,700 to $1,800).










Polar plot



View attachment 266021View attachment 266022



This loudspeaker shows almost perfectly smooth attenuation, not only in the front, but also in the sides and back.




Total Harmonic Distortion

I am representing THD relative data as CHD.
This is the percentage of each HD component based on the average SPL from 200 Hz to 10 kHz.

View attachment 266023View attachment 266024View attachment 266025View attachment 266026


You can hear a very clean response at 85dB SPL and even at 95dB SPL.
It's flawless.




Multitone test

View attachment 266027View attachment 266028

Multitone distortion of -40 to -50 dB were measured.









I tried removing the measurement signal below 80 Hz and measuring it.
This was done to see how much the effects of MD from the woofer's high displacement motion and ports could be reduced when used with a subwoofer.



View attachment 266029










And if anyone remembers, this product also had the "shadow flare" issue that was featured in Erin's Audio Corner.
So I measured how much the MD was changed by this as well.
(The effect on FR can be seen below).

View attachment 266030







MD for each SPL.


View attachment 266031View attachment 266032



Despite the increase in output, there is very little increase in Multitone Distortion.
This is a strong defense against distortion.




Compression test

View attachment 266033


This test was performed with Multitone.
It shows a compression of only 0.5 dB even at 96 dB SPL.
Very powerful performance.






Here's a look at compression testing from the other side.

These were performed at 0.1 m and 1 m, respectively, and measured with a sine sweep.



View attachment 266034View attachment 266035


We can see that the response of the woofer increased with the increase in SPL at 45Hz.
This means that the internal air pressure along the port did not remain linear.

In other words, above a certain sound pressure, the ports in this speaker lose a little bit of their effectiveness.

(All SPL values are based on output at 1kHz @1m)






Grill test

View attachment 266036


The grille is affected by a very high Q value.







Shadow flare

View attachment 266037


I measured the impact of Shadow flare, which we introduced in EAC.
(I don't own this loudspeaker, so I wasn't able to push the part very hard).

You can see that there is a dip centered around 1 kHz.
(Pressing in the Shadow flare will correct this).




View attachment 266038





Finally, the FR deviation comparison between the two samples.

View attachment 266039





A very personal thought.

KEF's precise directional control is truly amazing.

Its predecessor was good enough, but it's even better than I expected.


If I had to pick a downside...
The bass is weak.
Also, due to the compression at high SPL, I think it would be a bit too much for me to enjoy a movie without a subwoofer.

Of course, I was just nitpicking because it was so great. :)
(I envy the owner.)
So if it is crossed over at 80 Hz with two subs it should be spectacular would you say?
 

Descartes

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R3 Meta from this thread:

index.php

R3 from Erin's measurements:
Kef%20R3%20Horizontal%20Contour%20Plot%20%28normalized%29.png
They look identical!
 
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