Kef R Meta Series Release

[Daka]

The selling point of REL as opposed to popular opinion here is it’s speed. But even after going through the “speed” threads here, I am not convinced about the answers. For example like I asked earlier, if I play a 50hz or 80hz signal through the top of the line Kef speaker like the muon and a 20 dollar cheapo speaker for 1 second, would it stop without further swinging at the end of 1 second when the signal is off in the same way. Subjectively I have heard fast and sluggish sounding speakers in my life, never understood what made it sound so.

The so-called “group delay” is simply the time lag between the envelope of input burst and the envelope of the amplitude of the output burst. So, group delay means a propagation delay through a filter, measured on the envelope of the signal.
Transient response is the ability of a speaker to start and stop exactly when the sound going into should start and stop. A bass cab with excellent transient response sounds far more alive and responsive than one with poor transient response and makes it easier to both groove hard and be heard on the gig.
I believe those two will be very different between Muon and 1 dollar speaker, among many other differences.

 

[thewas]

Also often a sluggish bass experience is the result of not corrected room modes.

 

[dogmamann]

In Sweden, it's a 20% discount on the full range of "non-Meta" R-series speakers. I guess it's the same for other countries in Europe.

R series offer was there for long. I meant meta. Nobody is discounting anything on meta. I asked two dealers already.and looked up other websites too

 

[goat76]

R series offer was there for long. I meant meta. Nobody is discounting anything on meta. I asked two dealers already.and looked up other websites too

Ooops, I missed that part about the claimed 10% discount on the new version, sorry!

 

[Ciobi69]

The KF92 and KC62 have the same sort of limiting DSP. Beyond about 85dB SPL, further increases to level won't raise the lowest frequencies as much.

But as the KF92 is physically bigger and more capable (by about 5dB), its limiter is less aggressive.

Here are some REW/UMIK-1 measurements of my KF92 (single sub, listening position) - you can see the effect. Each sweep signal is 5dB louder than the last. The -40dBFS, -35dBFS and -30dBFS sweeps are all parallel, but beyond -30dBFS (85-90dB SPL), the low end is no longer going up 5dB in line with the high end. Limiting seems to take effect below about 45Hz.

View attachment 265734

Was doing mine, had to stop my entire house was shaking hahah , i have a 18 inch sealed sundown x18 1500w RMS

 

[dogmamann]

Was doing mine, had to stop my entire house was shaking hahah , i have a 18 inch sealed sundown x18 1500w RMS

Hahah

 

[Alexx]

@dogmamann:
I sent him an email as he replies I'll let you know.

In Italy the price is at "discretion" some do it some don't.

The lowest prices are:

R3 euros 1450

R3 Meta euros 1950
As I have news, I'll update you.

 

[exm]

Which dealer discounts it by 10%?!!!

My US dealer discounts by 20-30%. Have to find a good, authorized dealer who works with you.

 

[exm]

The selling point of REL as opposed to popular opinion here is it’s speed. But even after going through the “speed” threads here, I am not convinced about the answers. For example like I asked earlier, if I play a 50hz or 80hz signal through the top of the line Kef speaker like the muon and a 20 dollar cheapo speaker for 1 second, would it stop without further swinging at the end of 1 second when the signal is off in the same way. Subjectively I have heard fast and sluggish sounding speakers in my life, never understood what made it sound so.

I used to own a REL Storm 20+ years ago. They used to be revolutionary back in the days with their integration options, and they sounded great too. There are so many more options and 90% uses LFE connections, so I don't see why I would pay more for the REL name. On a side note, I don't like the styling of the latest REL subs either. I'm not saying REL subs are bad, but you can get a lot better subs for REL money.

 

[dogmamann]

My US dealer discounts by 20-30%. Have to find a good, authorized dealer who works with you.

No proof! R meta at least in Germany isn’t discounted by 1%! The ones I contacted told, they are fresh and they can’t give any discount any time soon!!

 

[Daka]

I respect that but couldn't care less about what problems loudspeaker designers have.

you might care less but the price will reflect the hardship they went through so if you don’t see a difference between paying 3-6k for active speaker or 10-20k for passive plus amps then well…

 

[thewas]

If you are a long time loyal customer to a local dealer and he feels he can trust you that you won't post in the internet anything about the discount you can get discounts on anything, like for example even B&W which was supposed to be sold only at list price. People who just email and call dealers of course won't get a discount in that case for the above reason.

 

[Daka]

The selling point of REL as opposed to popular opinion here is it’s speed. But even after going through the “speed” threads here, I am not convinced about the answers. For example like I asked earlier, if I play a 50hz or 80hz signal through the top of the line Kef speaker like the muon and a 20 dollar cheapo speaker for 1 second, would it stop without further swinging at the end of 1 second when the signal is off in the same way. Subjectively I have heard fast and sluggish sounding speakers in my life, never understood what made it sound so.

FYI REL on their high end line s510 and s812 subwoofers claim to have low latency of 8ms (Tx is 16ms), which they say is so low because there is no DSP involved (and why they perform worse), but my Arendal 1723 s1, DSPed is claimed to have same 8ms delay and mops a floor with RELs for half price. RELs only work in hifi where people use amps with no subwoofer integration and need to use high level connection only (but KEFs for instance have high level inputs as well).

 

[Zvu]

you might care less but the price will reflect the hardship they went through so if you don’t see a difference between paying 3-6k for active speaker or 10-20k for passive plus amps then well…

Those Genelecs cost 10.100€ for a pair. Kef Reference 1 meta with 500W Hypex nCore monoblocs and minidsp flex cost 10.700€, so i don't know really what are you talking about.


Let me remind you what you wrote.

....Otherwise active speaker can do things passive cannot...

Since then you've given not even one argument to back up your claim but you have introduced two other parameters - looks/size and price and you're wrong about the latter.

On the other hand, i consider this dsp powered passive system on par performance wise and a lot safer when it comes to electronic malfunction since one can just order another nCore module or send minidsp flex to be repaired (if possible). Shipping cost would be a fraction of what that Genelec would cost to be sent to Finland for an expensive repair and then sent back - hoping that no damage happened to drivers during shipping.

 

[lossendae]

Since then you've given not even one argument to back up your claim but you have introduced two other parameters - looks/size and price and you're wrong about the latter.

I think the pricing range is quite similar and the clear advantage of active speakers is how easy it is to use them.
The ability to make high end hifi accessible to people who can't and/or don't want to chose electronics, dsp and all the things that make hifi seemingly fun for you.

That being said, you asked what can't be done with passive only to counter with the known limitations of actives (electronic malfunction, size does not matter, etc...) like we don't know about them. Quite dishonest and unnecessarily disparaging.

 

[Daka]

Those Genelecs cost 10.100€ for a pair. Kef Reference 1 meta with 500W Hypex nCore monoblocs and minidsp flex cost 10.700€, so i don't know really what are you talking about.


Let me remind you what you wrote.



Since then you've given not even one argument to back up your claim but you have introduced two other parameters - looks/size and price and you're wrong about the latter.

On the other hand, i consider this dsp powered passive system on par performance wise and a lot safer when it comes to electronic malfunction since one can just order another nCore module or send minidsp flex to be repaired (if possible). Shipping cost would be a fraction of what that Genelec would cost to be sent to Finland for an expensive repair and then sent back - hoping that no damage happened to drivers during shipping.

CompaRe perhaps apples to apples I can randomly select two speakers also to prove that those genelecs are actually cheaper.
Ls60 is much cheaper than KEF Reference and definitely better than R series.

 

[Mario Sanchez]

Ordered a R2M from a local dealer, arrival should be in a few weeks, hope the whitepaper will be out then so I can fiddle with the crossover (adding a tiny amount of DSP to implement a horb-keele crossover) and get controlled directivity from transition freq. up on the horizontal plane which matches directivity of the (presumably new and different) Uni-Q design.

 

[Zvu]

I think the pricing range is quite similar and the clear advantage of active speakers is how easy it is to use them...

Yes, those speakers, amps and dsp's are awful. Connect three boxes by cables and press a switch. Much harder to use than actives that need no cabling whatsoever.

......That being said, you asked what can't be done with passive only to counter with the known limitations of actives (electronic malfunction, size does not matter, etc...) like we don't know about them. Quite dishonest and unnecessarily disparaging.

I asked what can be done because ASR is place that adhere magic properties to active loudspeakers like they use some different types of transducers and don't follow the laws of physics. My comment is my standpoint in comparison i've made. You don't have to like it.

CompaRe perhaps apples to apples I can randomly select two speakers also to prove that those genelecs are actually cheaper.
Ls60 is much cheaper than KEF Reference and definitely better than R series.

You should listen to your own advice. I compared two coaxial standmount three way loudspeakers of similar price.

I don't know what are you trying to compare now. Write down the models of loudspeakers you have in mind so we could have a meaningfull discussion, if it is a fair comparison and what will those actives be able to DO that those passives couldn't.

 

[MarkS]

Those Genelecs cost 10.100€ for a pair. Kef Reference 1 meta with 500W Hypex nCore monoblocs and minidsp flex cost 10.700€, so i don't know really what are you talking about.

Those Genelecs have two 10" woofers per side, compared with one 6.5" for the KEF.

 

[Mario Sanchez]

Those Genelecs have two 10" woofers per side, compared with one 6.5" for the KEF.

As someone who is quite fond of the ones myself, I feel obligated to add a small correction to that statement. Each racetrack woofer isn't exactly equivalent to one circular 10" unit, it's more like a circular unit split in two halves and placed on each side in a cavity...