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Kef R Meta Series Release

JRS

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Had the chance today to listen to the KEF R3 Meta and LS60 Wireless at an audio show which was a lucky coincidence as I am considering getting the R3 Meta Indigo Special Edition when it will be released coming summer. Unfortunately listened only to two tracks which were not my choice but I liked their tuning, also they played quite loud without any noticeable distortions.

View attachment 265665
Same--waiting for Blue (provided reviews are favorable re worthiness to upgrade). Thinking I'll break out Miles D Kind of Blue for first play.

Otherwise I might go used R3 (many on eBay around 1000 to 1200 USD and find a reputable autobody shop to paint them--seems like buying whites would be best approach. Guessing $300 or so for the labor but really have no ides. So many yummy colors to choose from.
 

Daka

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Nope. Ls50 metas are better in that regard if only Kef speakers are considered. If you compare them to brands with really broader dispersion even below it’s price class, they still loose easily. Also, it’s a misconception that other speakers won’t image like Kef. They do, if placed right, but only downside is listening sweetspot with this imaging is smaller. But most audiophile people so at the same spot everyday for listening sessions, and therefore for many of them this advantage is overlooked.

For a listener who sits at the same spot, the benefits of other brands over kefs should also be taken into consideration before settling on them. I had demoed r7 and r3 and many other speakers in the same rooms many times, unless I had read all the lectures and has my bias about them, (that they had better engineering) I wouldn’t have felt them as anything special.

If anything it’s not easy to overlook the roll off on highs, and narrow soundstage in comparison in 30 minutes.
Oh yes I agree, they are not wide dispersion speakers by no means. But they seem to just just enough while preserving imaging.
Now I have listened to music upmixer with Auro3D and that gives exactly the best from both worlds - wide and precise imaging. R3 + R6 meta changed the game to me - as there is finally nothing worse about it compared to stereo. And I did try before with R3 + R2C and ls50 meta + R2C
 

Daka

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Name a few please ?
Size - you cannot make passive speakers as small as active.
DSP-crossover much more versatile than analog circuits. The designer of an active speaker can set eq and delay freely to achieve practically perfect acoustic matching response and phase curves, and amplifiers can have different optimized gain. Also xo and delay between subwoofer and main speakers can be handled better if internal speaker dsp is used.
 
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dogmamann

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Yeah but is not like all kind of music sounds good with neutral top-end FR treble..., can you imagine HipHop / Rap music sound more plesant with neutral treble? it might will sound kind of boring and very harsh.

I have EQ the treble and it's sound fine, but thats because i want a neutral treble not everyone want the same FR. Also because the UNIQ it's point source it's vertical dispersion performance is very good, so the '' height '' is not that important as it looks like.





That's being said, as far as i know/remember you didn't have any problem with the bass from ur 7k, and the r7 gives the same kind of bass until die. ( 105dB both towers ) the R11 by other hand can handle more sub bass than both of these at higher spl due to it's 4 woofers. But in my small room i got a bass like a ref5 can do in normal rooms (of course, much bigger room than mine), only because i got some nice bass reinforcement in my room..

But remember, not all rooms can give you bass-gain, most of the room do the opposite...


My plan is getting 2 KF92, because if i move into a bigger room i will not get anywhere near the bass performance of this room.., and the bass performance is very important to me. I find fun playing some games in my R7s too and listening music with lots of bass.

And i'm pretty sure if i let the r7 play 80hz-20khz it will sound better, the IMD in the woofer area should be better (like any speaker).
I don’t have the 7k anymore, I wasn’t completely satisfied by it as there was some resonance in mid bass like hitting on a pot on it. Also, it was a loaner from someone wasnt exactly mine. I wont buy one either but on paper r7 goes to distortion very easily in low bass if a high pass isn’t used and pushed loud, the reference 7k is very clean on paper, but in real life I have listened to r7 too and I don’t think despite better measurement in bass distortion the cantons doenst sound any better than Kef and in fact I felt Kef more neutral with bass! But midrange and treble and soundstage on them was never comparable, canton clearly to me sounded way ahead. If I ever have to buy one I would either look into Kef reference or canton reference 5k or above not below them!
 

dogmamann

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BrokenEnglishGuy

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I don’t have the 7k anymore, I wasn’t completely satisfied by it as there was some resonance in mid bass like hitting on a pot on it. Also, it was a loaner from someone wasnt exactly mine. I wont buy one either but on paper r7 goes to distortion very easily in low bass if a high pass isn’t used and pushed loud, the reference 7k is very clean on paper, but in real life I have listened to r7 too and I don’t think despite better measurement in bass distortion the cantons doenst sound any better than Kef and in fact I felt Kef more neutral with bass! But midrange and treble and soundstage on them was never comparable, canton clearly to me sounded way ahead. If I ever have to buy one I would either look into Kef reference or canton reference 5k or above not below them!
Ah I see.

Personally i find the mid range and HF with EQ very very nice, i feel nothing is missing. The R7 don't have any port noise in any way, the Flex Port is a very good idea, they are using them in the Reference Meta line now.



Having hear the ref3 vs my r7 with eq, i would definily chose a pair a KF92 as a upgrade. I have 0 problems in the MF - HF after EQ.



What i really want is 20hz ;)



To me canton isn't an option, too much distortion in their '' mid range '' that looks like more like a woofer. I didn't know the 7K speaker have port noise, i would expect the higher models to have even worse that problem.


But yeah, the R series as a narrow dispersion speakers, works better in smaller spaces plus in small rooms you gain some bass gain, the ports are tunned very low.

edit: my friend also have the REL S510 and the KEF KUBE 12B with the REF3, it's impressive how REL lacks of bass extension the 12b has more LFE LOL.
 
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exm

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Popped in my dealer for a little bit today and saw the R meta on the floor. They already got R5, R7, and R11 meta ready to be demoed. I spent a little time with the R7 meta. They definitely look good. If I were to shop for something in the range, I would consider them. View attachment 265650

View attachment 265648View attachment 265649
View attachment 265647

Crazy to see the bubbled grilles on the walnut R's out in a showroom. I assume those are older non-Metas? This dealer should definitely not have it out like that (just my 2 cents).
 

dogmamann

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I don’t undertand the hype on blue speakers! It doesn’t go with any modern interior with dull color palets.
Ah I see.

Personally i find the mid range and HF with EQ very very nice, i feel nothing is missing. The R7 don't have any port noise in any way, the Flex Port is a very good idea, they are using them in the Reference Meta line now.



Having hear the ref3 vs my r7 with eq, i would definily chose a pair a KF92 as a upgrade. I have 0 problems in the MF - HF after EQ.



What i really want is 20hz ;)



To me canton isn't an option, too much distortion in their '' mid range '' that looks like more like a woofer. I didn't know the 7K speaker have port noise, i would expect the higher models to have even worse that problem.


But yeah, the R series as a narrow dispersion speakers, works better in smaller spaces plus in small rooms you gain some bass gain, the ports are tunned very low.

edit: my friend also have the REL S510 and the KEF KUBE 12B with the REF3, it's impressive how REL lacks of bass extension the 12b has more LFE LOL.
On the canton it wasn’t port noise, but there is a clearly audible resonance in mid bass, which initially was ok for me, and over the period grew annoying. Again about the distortion, as opposed to you and the other guy who was arguing about it, I had it at my home for quite some time, and no it’s not audible with any kid of music. Other than this, it’s midrange and the region above it are very much like monitor grade with the difference that the larger midrange legs you place them really wide apart and you still get a proper body in the midrage. In my living room I had them 3,5 m apart and the soundstage was crazy wide and deep. The bass guide system below them also is not normal downfirng. I could keep them just 50 cm close to the wall but it didn’t create any bloated bass.

All being said, yes if you are still sold on your own story about the distortion, it’s a good justification not to spend 7k on them. But living with kefs ecosystem alone would never let you experience the existence of wider stage outside the boundary speakers and the airy top end and so on. Elac vela imo, has even better highs than cantons, but they don’t have the same level of neutrality in mids like them. Kef is a totally different sound, I like them too, but cannot live with them as my only set of speakers.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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wider stage outside the boundary speakers
But thats the thing, narrow dispersion works better in smaller spaces, i don't want a much wider speaker. It's more about what suit your situation

For example there is some AMT speakers with a really wide dispersion.. maybe these will be better than the 7k in that regard to you

EDIT: I debit you push the speaker much more that I do in that bigger space.
 
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exm

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Having hear the ref3 vs my r7 with eq, i would definily chose a pair a KF92 as a upgrade. I have 0 problems in the MF - HF after EQ.


What i really want is 20hz ;)

How do compare the Reference 3s vs the R7? Should be an enormous upgrade.

If you want 20Hz, look beyond KEF for subwoofers. You want at least a 15" driver to get to 20Hz with over 100db.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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How do compare the Reference 3s vs the R7? Should be an enormous upgrade.

If you want 20Hz, look beyond KEF for subwoofers. You want at least a 15" driver to get to 20Hz with over 100db.
The ref3 sound more coherent in the MF-HF with much more overall sub bass, is not like is the same speaker, it's much more bigger too. Put the ref3 and the r7 in the same space and the ref3 will sound much different. You need to work with digital EQ in order to make the MF-HF from R7 sounds similar to the MF-HF from ref3 and have some very good luck (room gain in the sub bass region) if u want something similar.

The r7 and the ref3 are for different situation, you cannot use the ref3 in very small spaces. The ref3 it's much bigger, naturally will push more air into his ports and bla bla. My friend have the ref3 in a much bigger space and that speaker is giving a solid 30hz 0+dB in-room.

But to be honest the 20hz depend on how big is the space too. i'll look much more later for that btw, for now im fine with the r7.

edit: the craftsmanship from the reference it's a whole different thing, looks much better than the R. That reason is enough to more for want a reference, lol.
edit2: the compression at high spl and the maximun spl in the reference is better.
 
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dogmamann

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The ref3 sound more coherent in the MF-HF with much more overall sub bass, is not like is the same speaker, it's much more bigger too. Put the ref3 and the r7 in the same space and the ref3 will sound much different. You need to work with digital EQ in order to make the MF-HF from R7 sounds similar to the MF-HF from ref3 and have some very good luck (room gain in the sub bass region) if u want something similar.

The r7 and the ref3 are for different situation, you cannot use the ref3 in very small spaces. The ref3 it's much bigger, naturally will push more air into his ports and bla bla. My friend have the ref3 in a much bigger space and that speaker is giving a solid 30hz 0+dB in-room.

But to be honest the 20hz depend on how big is the space too. i'll look much more later for that btw, for now im fine with the r7.

edit: the craftsmanship from the reference it's a whole different thing, looks much better than the R. That reason is enough to more for want a reference, lol.
edit2: the compression at high spl and the maximun spl in the reference is better.
The kf92!doesn’t have a limiter like Kc 62? I mean when you push the volume up the low extension on kc62 reduces. Again, you need two subs to evennout bass, 2 kf92s are great, but it’s already would cost more than a new pair of r7s making the biggest investment in the room than main speakers. I really like it spec wise, are there any measurement available for it ?
 

KMO

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The kf92!doesn’t have a limiter like Kc 62? I mean when you push the volume up the low extension on kc62 reduces. Again, you need two subs to evennout bass, 2 kf92s are great, but it’s already would cost more than a new pair of r7s making the biggest investment in the room than main speakers. I really like it spec wise, are there any measurement available for it ?

The KF92 and KC62 have the same sort of limiting DSP. Beyond about 85dB SPL, further increases to level won't raise the lowest frequencies as much.

But as the KF92 is physically bigger and more capable (by about 5dB), its limiter is less aggressive.

Here are some REW/UMIK-1 measurements of my KF92 (single sub, listening position) - you can see the effect. Each sweep signal is 5dB louder than the last. The -40dBFS, -35dBFS and -30dBFS sweeps are all parallel, but beyond -30dBFS (85-90dB SPL), the low end is no longer going up 5dB in line with the high end. Limiting seems to take effect below about 45Hz.

1676795132477.png
 
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Zvu

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Size - you cannot make passive speakers as small as active.
DSP-crossover much more versatile than analog circuits. The designer of an active speaker can set eq and delay freely to achieve practically perfect acoustic matching response and phase curves, and amplifiers can have different optimized gain. Also xo and delay between subwoofer and main speakers can be handled better if internal speaker dsp is used.

I respect that but couldn't care less about what problems loudspeaker designers have.

Let me make it simple.

Explain me the advantage of Genelec 8361A compared to Kef Reference 1 meta with external dsp and amp ?
 

Alexx

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Good morning.

I put this link, it explains well all the various differences between R and R-Meta series: https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/kef-r-series-overview

Speakers, construction, crossovers etc. in fact the only thing that hasn't changed between the two models is the woofer, for the rest there seem to have been many updates besides the "Metamaterial".

All these things could make a good difference in terms of acoustic performance..... considering that some pre-order retailers are already discounting the new series by 10%

If the "timbre" has not been denaturalized and therefore remained consistent with the "Kef" sound of the old series, I think it is a very good speaker.

Obviously, if you don't accept it, it's all theoretical...
See you soon.
 

Cyral

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The kf92!doesn’t have a limiter like Kc 62? I mean when you push the volume up the low extension on kc62 reduces. Again, you need two subs to evennout bass, 2 kf92s are great, but it’s already would cost more than a new pair of r7s making the biggest investment in the room than main speakers. I really like it spec wise, are there any measurement available for it ?

Here are also some measurements of my single KEF KF92.

Red trace is -25, the other traces at -15 and - 10. Also tested -5, where it does reach 100db at 20hz and 30 hz, but the slope is steeper from 40hz. Also the limiter seems to be more aggressive than for instance the Arendal 1961 1s, I had before. The KEF doesn't reach the same distortion levels as the Arendal.
 

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dogmamann

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Good morning.

I put this link, it explains well all the various differences between R and R-Meta series: https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/kef-r-series-overview

Speakers, construction, crossovers etc. in fact the only thing that hasn't changed between the two models is the woofer, for the rest there seem to have been many updates besides the "Metamaterial".

All these things could make a good difference in terms of acoustic performance..... considering that some pre-order retailers are already discounting the new series by 10%

If the "timbre" has not been denaturalized and therefore remained consistent with the "Kef" sound of the old series, I think it is a very good speaker.

Obviously, if you don't accept it, it's all theoretical...
See you soon.
Which dealer discounts it by 10%?!!!
 

goat76

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Which dealer discounts it by 10%?!!!

In Sweden, it's a 20% discount on the full range of "non-Meta" R-series speakers. I guess it's the same for other countries in Europe.
 
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dogmamann

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Ah I see.

Personally i find the mid range and HF with EQ very very nice, i feel nothing is missing. The R7 don't have any port noise in any way, the Flex Port is a very good idea, they are using them in the Reference Meta line now.



Having hear the ref3 vs my r7 with eq, i would definily chose a pair a KF92 as a upgrade. I have 0 problems in the MF - HF after EQ.



What i really want is 20hz ;)



To me canton isn't an option, too much distortion in their '' mid range '' that looks like more like a woofer. I didn't know the 7K speaker have port noise, i would expect the higher models to have even worse that problem.


But yeah, the R series as a narrow dispersion speakers, works better in smaller spaces plus in small rooms you gain some bass gain, the ports are tunned very low.

edit: my friend also have the REL S510 and the KEF KUBE 12B with the REF3, it's impressive how REL lacks of bass extension the 12b has more LFE LOL.
The selling point of REL as opposed to popular opinion here is it’s speed. But even after going through the “speed” threads here, I am not convinced about the answers. For example like I asked earlier, if I play a 50hz or 80hz signal through the top of the line Kef speaker like the muon and a 20 dollar cheapo speaker for 1 second, would it stop without further swinging at the end of 1 second when the signal is off in the same way. Subjectively I have heard fast and sluggish sounding speakers in my life, never understood what made it sound so.
 
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