Kef R Meta Series Release

[dogmamann]

Amazon basics 14 gauge cable runs at $0.41/ft. You can find Canare 4s11 at $1.59/ft. If you need 15ft per speaker (so 30ft in total) the costs are:
- Amazon basics: 30*$0.41=$12.30
- Canare 4s1: 30*$1.59=$47.70
Difference: $35.40

With speakers that are $1,300 or $2,200 (Meta or not), spending an extra $35 to get cables that are studio rated is certainly worth it to me? But maybe you recommend using clothing hangers ($0/ft) also?

Can you prove if the canare sounds better ? Sorry your humour (the one with the hanger)is hard to follow as my first language isn’t English.

 

[exm]

They don't make any audible difference. But if they make you feel better then that's a great price.

I don't think we need to take the cable conversation any further; it's up to OP to decide if investing an extra $35 to get studio-grade cables made in Japan.

 

[dogmamann]

They don't make any audible difference. But if they make you feel better then that's a great price.

I agree 35 bucks for look and feel is fine. I too have Audio quest cables which I bought for looks. Good knitting pattern which I like. There is no audible difference from generic amazon cables.

 

[Talisman]

Can you prove if the canare sounds better ? Sorry your humour (the one with the hanger)is hard to follow as my first language isn’t English.

I think he refers to this amusing experiment (which, paradoxically, proves him wrong...)https://www.soundguys.com/cable-myths-reviving-the-coathanger-test-23553/

 

[bodhi]

I agree 35 bucks for look and feel is fine. I too have Audio quest cables which I bought for looks. Good knitting pattern which I like. There is no audible difference from generic amazon cables.

I also like fabric woven cables, have those for all my headphones. Except the LCD-X, for some reason the readily available ones are ~100€ and that's bit steep for only looks and the stock cable is better than most anyways.

I always remember to tell people that the cables make no difference whatsoever to the sound quality, just to make sure they don't take me as the cable weirdo.

 

[Daka]

Yeah, I know I don't and I know you don't either. And you know you do, so we just have to leave it at that.

M’kay sure amps with measurable differences yet you will say they are the same. That tells me you never listened to it never a/b compared them yet you voice your opinion. Sure you can but it’s simply silly. Let’s leave at it indeed.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Purifi 1ET400A seems overkill for the Kef R3. Also, I suspect the difference might not be audible between the Purifi 1ET400A and Hypex NC252MP.

I find my purifi very ok with my r7s
That being said i have -12dB of room correction but it sounds rlly good

 

[Streamc]

I find my purifi very ok with my r7s
That being said i have -12dB of room correction but it sounds rlly good

Do you use buffer or bypass it?

 

[Descartes]

I am looking forward to a head to head comparison both analytical and subjective between the
KEF R3 vs the KEF R3 Meta!
Amir or Erin please let us know.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Do you use buffer or bypass it?

buffer, the full power is reach at 2.6v~ if i remember correctly, i have a little more power than the r7 needs, fits perfectly

 

[MarkS]

There is quite a big difference- I have both and compared them with ls50 metas. Purifi has got higher damping factor and it just controls bass tighter resulting in very noticeably better soundstage. Nc252 I found simply too boring sounding to dive front channel.

And of course you listened blind and level-matched, so that your ingoing opinion (that a higher damping factor results in tighter bass) did not have any influence on what you thought you heard.

Right? Right???

 

[Daka]

And of course you listened blind and level-matched, so that your ingoing opinion (that a higher damping factor results in tighter bass) did not have any influence on what you thought you heard.

Right? Right???

When I decided to compare them I already owned both for some time so this wasn’t new purchase bias. I knew it had higher damping factor but at that point didn’t even think about it. Truth being wanted to get rid of Purifi monos as it was just too many boxes kicking around - and that’s as the main reason for this test. So bias was to hear the same sell monos and happy days.
I see some of you don’t think damping factor has much importance - no audible difference between 300 and 1600/2000.
Some people say it depends on speakers you pair it with - so if someone listened to amp with high damping but different speakers this is not necessarily apples to apples comparison. Some speakers apparently favor higher damping some would sound worse. People often pair KEFs with Hegel even though it measures not so great, but coincidentally has got high damping factor - coincidence? Or we assume all those people that spend 5k on the amp never heard any different amp in their life and they just blindly decided on Hegel? Btw I’m not advocating for Hegel, it’s interesting what makes it so people so like it.
So perhaps KEFs do react differently.
Maybe the lack of difference some of you experienced can exist with my experience of hearing it because we have compared on different set of speakers? otherwise it’s hard to explain it for me why the difference. Def not trying here to say I know more than any of you but it’s interesting what some of you experience comparing them - and I’m not assuming you’re wrong what you’ve heard but at the same time I know what I’ve heard. Must be some logical explanation, but bias isn’t it.

 

[Steve Dallas]

When I decided to compare them I already owned both for some time so this wasn’t new purchase bias. I knew it had higher damping factor but at that point didn’t even think about it. Truth being wanted to get rid of Purifi monos as it was just too many boxes kicking around - and that’s as the main reason for this test. So bias was to hear the same sell monos and happy days.
I see some of you don’t think damping factor has much importance - no audible difference between 300 and 1600/2000.
Some people say it depends on speakers you pair it with - so if someone listened to amp with high damping but different speakers this is not necessarily apples to apples comparison. Some speakers apparently favor higher damping some would sound worse. People often pair KEFs with Hegel even though it measures not so great, but coincidentally has got high damping factor - coincidence? Or we assume all those people that spend 5k on the amp never heard any different amp in their life and they just blindly decided on Hegel? Btw I’m not advocating for Hegel, it’s interesting what makes it so people so like it.
So perhaps KEFs do react differently.
Maybe the lack of difference some of you experienced can exist with my experience of hearing it because we have compared on different set of speakers? otherwise it’s hard to explain it for me why the difference. Def not trying here to say I know more than any of you but it’s interesting what some of you experience comparing them - and I’m not assuming you’re wrong what you’ve heard but at the same time I know what I’ve heard. Must be some logical explanation, but bias isn’t it.

This is worth your time:

Audio Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor"

Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor" Myth - "A Damping Factor of 10 is High Enough" Myth - "All Amplifiers Have a High-Enough Damping Factor" Where did these Myths Originate? These myths seem to trace back to a well-known paper (PDF) written by Dick Pierce. His analysis shows that a...

benchmarkmedia.com

Conclusion: A damping factor of 200 is enough to contrain FR delta across the spectrum to 0.1dB. And, a damping factor of 300 is roughly the max that can be achieved at the speaker terminals.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

This is worth your time:

Audio Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor"

Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor" Myth - "A Damping Factor of 10 is High Enough" Myth - "All Amplifiers Have a High-Enough Damping Factor" Where did these Myths Originate? These myths seem to trace back to a well-known paper (PDF) written by Dick Pierce. His analysis shows that a...

benchmarkmedia.com

Conclusion: A damping factor of 200 is enough to contrain FR delta across the spectrum to 0.1dB. And, a damping factor of 300 is roughly the max that can be achieved at the speaker terminals.

Yes. And this.

Amplifier Output Impedance (Damping Factor) and Speakers

This is a reprint of an article written ca. 2011-2012. I've been meaning to rewrite and update it, but Life and Work keeps getting in the way, so I am reposting the original as-is. Take it for what it's worth, an introductory take on one of the potential causes for differences in sound among...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Mnyb]

Yes. And this.

Amplifier Output Impedance (Damping Factor) and Speakers

This is a reprint of an article written ca. 2011-2012. I've been meaning to rewrite and update it, but Life and Work keeps getting in the way, so I am reposting the original as-is. Take it for what it's worth, an introductory take on one of the potential causes for differences in sound among...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Papers/Damping-Damping-Factor-and-Damn-Nonsense-Floyd-Toole.pdf

Floyd Toole suggested 20 in this old paper but speakers are more low impedance nowadays and df is expressed as a ratio and probably to 8 ohms as this gives a bigger number , say 50 with the typical 3 ohm dip in the bass

Conclusion even 200 seems overkill df has to way lower to start to make an impact with real world passive speakers .
You have speaker cables and then the series resistance of the inductor in the bass xover filter . Actual df at the driver is not as much as one thinks.

In reality among moderns amps it’s typically only tube amps that have bad enough df to matter much.
Most other amps have 100 or better which is good enough.

 

[Mnyb]

On topic , R11 it has an vertical array of 4 bass drivers what impact does it have ? Can it help with floor interaction ? And is it not also dual br ports at separated quite a distance one close to the bottom and one way up on the cabinet ?

 

[Descartes]

On topic , R11 it has an vertical array of 4 bass drivers what impact does it have ? Can it help with floor interaction ? And is it not also dual br ports at separated quite a distance one close to the bottom and one way up on the cabinet ?

Just plays lower I don’t think you can call it an array especially when compared to these

JBL Professional CBT 70J-1 + 70JE-1 System

Purpose-Designed Extension for CBT 70J-1 Line Array Column Speaker. With str...

jblpro.com

Also interesting read of speaker array

Learn some basic Line Array design theory

Line arrays are often talked about but often misunderstood. Here is a quick guide of Line Array design theory to help you get the basics.

www.brightonsoundsystem.co.uk

If you like math then you will enjoy this publication

https://jblpro.com/en/site_elements/aes-journal-article-analysis-of-line-arrays

Personally I would rather buy the R7 and subs

 

[CrustyToad]

Yes. And this.

Amplifier Output Impedance (Damping Factor) and Speakers

This is a reprint of an article written ca. 2011-2012. I've been meaning to rewrite and update it, but Life and Work keeps getting in the way, so I am reposting the original as-is. Take it for what it's worth, an introductory take on one of the potential causes for differences in sound among...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And this

SUMMER MUSINGS: No... Not all amplifiers sound the same (but many do! ;-).

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

 

[dogmamann]

When I decided to compare them I already owned both for some time so this wasn’t new purchase bias. I knew it had higher damping factor but at that point didn’t even think about it. Truth being wanted to get rid of Purifi monos as it was just too many boxes kicking around - and that’s as the main reason for this test. So bias was to hear the same sell monos and happy days.
I see some of you don’t think damping factor has much importance - no audible difference between 300 and 1600/2000.
Some people say it depends on speakers you pair it with - so if someone listened to amp with high damping but different speakers this is not necessarily apples to apples comparison. Some speakers apparently favor higher damping some would sound worse. People often pair KEFs with Hegel even though it measures not so great, but coincidentally has got high damping factor - coincidence? Or we assume all those people that spend 5k on the amp never heard any different amp in their life and they just blindly decided on Hegel? Btw I’m not advocating for Hegel, it’s interesting what makes it so people so like it.
So perhaps KEFs do react differently.
Maybe the lack of difference some of you experienced can exist with my experience of hearing it because we have compared on different set of speakers? otherwise it’s hard to explain it for me why the difference. Def not trying here to say I know more than any of you but it’s interesting what some of you experience comparing them - and I’m not assuming you’re wrong what you’ve heard but at the same time I know what I’ve heard. Must be some logical explanation, but bias isn’t it.

The difference is in mind. Both amps should sound identifiable level matched. As per measurements both should sound the same.

 

[Alexx]

The cable is a very subjective thing... -

Psychologically I prefer a "decent" cable as opposed to the classic 1 cent red/black...although as rightly said the internal speaker wiring (of many speakers) uses basic cable so nullifies any external upgrade......

I prefer Rega over Hegel (the new Elicit MK5 is very good) but I'm happy with the Nad 399, initially I wanted to change it but I really like the "Nad" sound.

In Italy the old R3s are nowhere to be found, only the new Meta models are pre-ordered at the price of 2200 euros, which is quite a lot.
See you soon.