Kef R Meta Series Release

[exm]

I noticed something interesting:
The R8 Meta (check the MF)
Uni-Q Driver Array:
HF: 25 mm (1 in.) vented aluminium dome with MAT
MF/ LF: 130 mm (5.25 in.) aluminium cone

The “other” R Meta series driver are:
Uni-Q Driver Array:
HF: 25 mm (1 in.) vented aluminium dome with MAT
MF: 125 mm (5 in.) aluminium cone

LS50 Meta
Drive-units: 12th-generation Uni-Q driver array with 1" (25mm) vented aluminum-dome tweeter, 5.25" (130mm)

So the R8 Meta has a different driver compared to the other R series, but it seems identical to the LS50 Meta. I wonder if they're using the LS50 Meta driver in the R8 Meta which basically makes the R8 Meta a sealed version of the LS50 Meta?

 

[thewas]

The nominal crossover frequencies are also different though, 2.6 vs 2.1 kHz.

 

[Daka]

The nominal crossover frequencies are also different though, 2.6 vs 2.1 kHz.

Crossovers would be different as it’s different sealed box. Crossover is chosen also in relation to box right?

 

[Daka]

I noticed something interesting:
The R8 Meta (check the MF)
Uni-Q Driver Array:
HF: 25 mm (1 in.) vented aluminium dome with MAT
MF/ LF: 130 mm (5.25 in.) aluminium cone

The “other” R Meta series driver are:
Uni-Q Driver Array:
HF: 25 mm (1 in.) vented aluminium dome with MAT
MF: 125 mm (5 in.) aluminium cone

LS50 Meta
Drive-units: 12th-generation Uni-Q driver array with 1" (25mm) vented aluminum-dome tweeter, 5.25" (130mm)

So the R8 Meta has a different driver compared to the other R series, but it seems identical to the LS50 Meta. I wonder if they're using the LS50 Meta driver in the R8 Meta which basically makes the R8 Meta a sealed version of the LS50 Meta?

Would make sense for them not to reinvent the wheel.
I wonder who would be willing to buy R8 over much cheaper and better Ls50 meta. Crazy.

 

[exm]

Would make sense for them not to reinvent the wheel.
I wonder who would be willing to buy R8 over much cheaper and better Ls50 meta. Crazy.

That would be me. I will have 6 of these as height speakers (2 Q50A shown - they are similar in size). They fit perfectly angled from my ceiling - try to to this with the LS50M.

 

[Descartes]

That would be me. I will have 6 of these as height speakers (2 Q50A shown - they are similar in size). They fit perfectly angled from my ceiling - try to to this with the LS50M.

Are using these for ATMOS?

 

[thewas]

Crossovers would be different as it’s different sealed box. Crossover is chosen also in relation to box right?

Yes, but the crossover frequency doesn't need to be necessarily changed as its not much affected by those.

 

[Daka]

That would be me. I will have 6 of these as height speakers (2 Q50A shown - they are similar in size). They fit perfectly angled from my ceiling - try to to this with the LS50M.

Q50a price wise is very good - cheaper than ls50m 3x, we’re talking about r8 40% more expensive.
While I agree not everyone would go for bookshelf mounted on wall there are other options (on walls Arendals 1961 or SVS elevation for instance).
I use monitor audio ci265idx - put into their back box painted white mounted in the corner between wall and ceiling - total cost of four less than one pair of R8 and its 3 way speaker with better response. Could’ve mounted them simply as on walls also. Could also go with same back box and KEF ceiling speakers

 

[Paffi]

Q50a price wise is very good - cheaper than ls50m 3x, we’re talking about r8 40% more expensive.
While I agree not everyone would go for bookshelf mounted on wall there are other options (on walls Arendals 1961 or SVS elevation for instance).
I use monitor audio ci265idx - put into their back box painted white mounted in the corner between wall and ceiling - total cost of four less than one pair of R8 and its 3 way speaker with better response. Could’ve mounted them simply as on walls also. Could also go with same back box and KEF ceiling speakers

KEF R8A (non meta) is currently the same price as Q50a, around 300€ / speaker, wondering what would be the better speaker.

The R8A meta version is about 800 €, thats indeed a major difference in price.

KEF LSX I oder LSX II (active speakers) may also be an option for rear speakers.

 

[Daka]

KEF R8A (non meta) is currently the same price as Q50a, around 300€ / speaker, wondering what would be the better speaker.

The R8A meta version is about 800 €, thats indeed a major difference in price.

KEF LSX I oder LSX II (active speakers) may also be an option for rear speakers.

In UK - Q50a pair dropped to circa £300 in January now back to £400 and KEF increased price to £500 on their website.
R8a - now can be had for £600 a pair from £850.
R8 meta - £1400… thats insane price increase biggest of any refreshed speaker over here. And r8a was already overpriced as hell and didn’t offer much over Q50a (except finish). They count on people with more money than reason I guess but even then for that price you have plethora of simply better options all around. I could probably have someone to install a set of KEFs ci200rr thx speakers and still would be cheaper. I expect them to get huge discounts pretty soon.

 

[exm]

Yes, I am using my height speakers for Atmos/DTS:X upmixing.

About the price: I have been very happy with the Q50a and never felt that the R8s were worth the premium. However, I have been slowly upgrading all my speakers and I feel that a sealed LS50Meta-like R8 Meta speaker might be mostly worth the premium over the excellent Q50a (especially with the dealer discount I'm getting and the money I'll get back when I sell my Q50a). But I agree that $1,599 retail for these is outrageous (as someone else noted, that's the same as the LS50M!). I would think something like $1,299 would be more reasonable, but I'm sure the powers to be at Kef know marketing better than me.

 

[Daka]

Yes, I am using my height speakers for Atmos/DTS:X upmixing.

About the price: I have been very happy with the Q50a and never felt that the R8s were worth the premium. However, I have been slowly upgrading all my speakers and I feel that a sealed LS50Meta-like R8 Meta speaker might be mostly worth the premium over the excellent Q50a (especially with the dealer discount I'm getting and the money I'll get back when I sell my Q50a). But I agree that $1,599 retail for these is outrageous (as someone else noted, that's the same as the LS50M!). I would think something like $1,299 would be more reasonable, but I'm sure the powers to be at Kef know marketing better than me.

I had both q50a and R8a and frequency response was identical - dispersion seemed worse on R8a though which was partly confirmed by requirements of q50a being 1m away fro Maude walls vs r8a just 0.5m. So q50a sounded more immersive. Q50a for its price its very competitive speaker at the very least.
In Uk r8 is 40% more expensive than ls50m at the moment - KEF marketing must be having a laugh.
It’s hard to judge over different markets since KEF pricing is all over the place and it’s not even cohesive in pricing between different models, but in UK I can’t see them maintaining that price for long. Unless they are fine with not selling them.

 

[Paffi]

In UK - Q50a pair dropped to circa £300 in January now back to £400 and KEF increased price to £500 on their website.
R8a - now can be had for £600 a pair from £850.
R8 meta - £1400… thats insane price increase biggest of any refreshed speaker over here. And r8a was already overpriced as hell and didn’t offer much over Q50a (except finish). They count on people with more money than reason I guess but even then for that price you have plethora of simply better options all around. I could probably have someone to install a set of KEFs ci200rr thx speakers and still would be cheaper. I expect them to get huge discounts pretty soon.

Kef LSX 1 is currently available for <700 € per pair. If you can install active speakers, it´s probably the best deal at the moment.

 

[exm]

Kef LSX 1 is currently available for <700 € per pair. If you can install active speakers, it´s probably the best deal at the moment.

The Q50/R8 are meant to be surround speakers in a passive setup. I doubt that people can use active speakers as surrounds.

 

[exm]

I had both q50a and R8a and frequency response was identical - dispersion seemed worse on R8a though which was partly confirmed by requirements of q50a being 1m away fro Maude walls vs r8a just 0.5m. So q50a sounded more immersive. Q50a for its price its very competitive speaker at the very least.
In Uk r8 is 40% more expensive than ls50m at the moment - KEF marketing must be having a laugh.
It’s hard to judge over different markets since KEF pricing is all over the place and it’s not even cohesive in pricing between different models, but in UK I can’t see them maintaining that price for long. Unless they are fine with not selling them.

I plan to test the Q50a and R8 Meta side-by-side. This will be an "ear test" though. However, maybe I'll send one pair of my R8 Meta's to Amir for testing if he's interested (I'm getting 3 pairs anyway). Heck, maybe I can send the Q50a also @amirm

 

[Paffi]

The Q50/R8 are meant to be surround speakers in a passive setup. I doubt that people can use active speakers as surrounds.

Well, why not - there are several possible solutions to do that (you only need preouts). I do it as well. But enough off topic

 

[Daka]

Well, why not - there are several possible solutions to do that (you only need preouts). I do it as well. But enough off topic

It’s harder with actives as you need to feed input sound and power.

The Q50/R8 are meant to be surround speakers in a passive setup. I doubt that people can use active speakers as surrounds.

R8/q50a can be used as surround but - there are marketed as Atmos speaker primarily and because of the limited frequency response I would def not used them for surrounds. The dynamic range\compression will be massively underwhelming. Ls50m has limitations but this one will be worse. There are much better options for the price

 

[exm]

It’s harder with actives as you need to feed input sound and power.

R8/q50a can be used as surround but - there are marketed as Atmos speaker primarily and because of the limited frequency response I would def not used them for surrounds. The dynamic range\compression will be massively underwhelming. Ls50m has limitations but this one will be worse. There are much better options for the price

Hmm... Limited FR? For the R8 Meta the FREQUENCY RESPONSE (±3dB) is set to 97 Hz - 17.5 kHz and I would set the crossover at 120Hz for these. The Uni-Q driver is actually, in my opinion, excellent for surround/atmos purposes. Can you clarify a bit further your opinion about these?

 

[Daka]

Hmm... Limited FR? For the R8 Meta the FREQUENCY RESPONSE (±3dB) is set to 97 Hz - 17.5 kHz and I would set the crossover at 120Hz for these. The Uni-Q driver is actually, in my opinion, excellent for surround/atmos purposes. Can you clarify a bit further your opinion about these?

While R8 improved on previous by 8-10Hz it’s still not 80Hz. That’s what I mean by limited FR. Getting XO as high as 120Hz would require 2 subs more likely. Plus high undisclosed distortion under 200Hz. Ideally you want a speaker that can dig deeper and it’s not on its limits at ox point.
It’s petite speaker for awful lot of money. You can buy KEF in walls for less. Build boxes for them and hang them for less and enjoy much better sound. While I argue their value as height speakers they make absolute no sense for surround. Probably you can get any other KEF speaker for less that will make better job.

 

[exm]

While R8 improved on previous by 8-10Hz it’s still not 80Hz. That’s what I mean by limited FR. Getting XO as high as 120Hz would require 2 subs more likely. Plus high undisclosed distortion under 200Hz. Ideally you want a speaker that can dig deeper and it’s not on its limits at ox point.
It’s petite speaker for awful lot of money. You can buy KEF in walls for less. Build boxes for them and hang them for less and enjoy much better sound. While I argue their value as height speakers they make absolute no sense for surround. Probably you can get any other KEF speaker for less that will make better job.

Since we love data here at ASR, this is a fairly good review of the R8a: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r8a/

The summary for those who don't want to click:

Overall, with the right placement, this is a good speaker. Do not aim this on-axis (or, if you do, make sure to use EQ to knock down the HF peaking from 6-10kHz). The midrange clarity - for me - is the standout of this speaker and it really is quite excellent.

Since these aren’t intended to be used as front mains, I can give it some slack on the inability to play low where you will definitely need a subwoofer. The F3 of this speaker is 127Hz. The distortion and compression data all support the notion that you should not expect to run this down to 80Hz to pair with mains or otherwise mimic the mains. Frankly, I wouldn’t run them below 100Hz. I’d be looking at a crossover at least in the 125Hz region. If not higher. This presents a bit of a struggle for me as a reviewer because - on one hand you can’t reasonably expect a speaker of this size to extend low, however, from what I can tell in the Dolby spec and have been told from reliable home theater installers, the Atmos speakers in a home theater should be very comparable in bandwidth to that of the mains. You’re simply not going to get that in this case. And therein lies the inner struggle of rationalizing the best use-case of this speaker vs what is sensible for the small overall size; something that is likely necessary for small-to-medium sized home theaters.

So in my opinion this validated both our points to an extend. No, this is technically not a true Atmos speaker and it shouldn't be used for surround speakers. However, for height or overhead speakers these are excellent. Now we can also argue about the value (or lack thereof) for these. They are expensive. They are overpriced. All absolutely true. However, in my "home theater" (aka my den) they definitely aren't overly expensive compared to my other gear. As far as alternatives: I can't use wall-in speakers in my den, and the only other option would be to ceiling mount a LS50 or R3. I'll be looking at an expensive divorce.