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KEF Q100 Speaker Review

maty

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If you dare, open a new thread about it and I will comment on it what I have learned these seven years (June 2013) with them. With pictures, graphs, files... I have many information about Q100 and other KEF coaxials.
 

wowo101

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Due to their smooth directivity the Q100 can be EQed to even higher perfection, so equalizing the listening window smoothes thus also the predicted in-room response nicely:

View attachment 53808
(upper curves are LW and PIR without and the graphically offsetted by -10 dB curves are LW and PIR with my 10 PEQ).

Please feel free to contact me if you need the filter coefficients.

I was wondering if @Maiky76 is interested in and would have the time for feeding this into his optimizer? Would be interesting to see how close the manually derived coefficients are to algorithmically generated ones. Would also compare the two options in-room once I have a DSP added to my setup.
 

Maiky76

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I was wondering if @Maiky76 is interested in and would have the time for feeding this into his optimizer? Would be interesting to see how close the manually derived coefficients are to algorithmically generated ones. Would also compare the two options in-room once I have a DSP added to my setup.

HI,

Here the Optimizer output:
No EQ Spinorama, Score: 5.04
Kef Q100 no EQ Spinorama.png

The EQ design, EQed score: 6.33
The LW is boosted so caution applies when play loud to avoid bottoming and destruction of the speaker.
As for the LS50 the speaker do appreciate a slope to achieve its best score.

Code:
Type     Freq      Gain     Q
PEQ      94.5,     2.33,   2.02,...
PEQ     749.0,    -2.10,   5.34,...
PEQ     947.5,    -1.95,   6.73,...
PEQ    1265.5,    -1.89,   5.98,...
PEQ    1675.0,     1.38,   2.09,...
PEQ    3501.0,     1.10,   2.01,...
PEQ    4981.0,    -1.30,   2.97,...
PEQ    6800.0,    -1.35,   3.44,...
PEQ   11265.0,    -1.02,   2.70,...
Kef Q100 EQ design.png


The updated Kef Q100 EQed Spinorama:
Really similar to the LS50
Kef Q100 EQed Spinorama.png

The Regression/ Tonal, the ON is pretty flat now
Kef Q100 EQ Regession - Tonal.png

The zoom on ON-LW-PIR
Kef Q100 EQ Zoom PIR-LW-ON.png

Probably better listened to slightly off-axis around 10deg
Kef Q100 LW data.png

And the radar comparing the EQ version and the No EQ version:
Decent gains
Kef Q100 EQed vs No EQ Radar.png

the rest of the data is attached
 

Attachments

  • Kef Q100 2D surface Directivity Contour Only Data.png
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  • Kef Q100 2D surface Directivity Contour Data.png
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  • Kef Q100 3D surface Vertical Directivity Data.png
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  • Kef Q100 Normalized Directivity data.png
    Kef Q100 Normalized Directivity data.png
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  • Kef Q100 Raw Directivity data.png
    Kef Q100 Raw Directivity data.png
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  • Kef Q100 Reflexion data.png
    Kef Q100 Reflexion data.png
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  • Kef Q100 3D surface Horizontal Directivity Data.png
    Kef Q100 3D surface Horizontal Directivity Data.png
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wowo101

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HI,

Here the Optimizer output:
No EQ Spinorama, Score: 5.04
View attachment 85282
The EQ design, EQed score: 6.33
The LW is boosted so caution applies when play loud to avoid bottoming and destruction of the speaker.
As for the LS50 the speaker do appreciate a slope to achieve its best score.

Code:
Type     Freq      Gain     Q
PEQ      94.5,     2.33,   2.02,...
PEQ     749.0,    -2.10,   5.34,...
PEQ     947.5,    -1.95,   6.73,...
PEQ    1265.5,    -1.89,   5.98,...
PEQ    1675.0,     1.38,   2.09,...
PEQ    3501.0,     1.10,   2.01,...
PEQ    4981.0,    -1.30,   2.97,...
PEQ    6800.0,    -1.35,   3.44,...
PEQ   11265.0,    -1.02,   2.70,...
View attachment 85281

The updated Kef Q100 EQed Spinorama:
Really similar to the LS50
View attachment 85284
The Regression/ Tonal, the ON is pretty flat now
View attachment 85286
The zoom on ON-LW-PIR
View attachment 85285
Probably better listened to slightly off-axis around 10degView attachment 85294
And the radar comparing the EQ version and the No EQ version:
Decent gains
View attachment 85283
the rest of the data is attached
That is excellent, thanks!

Is there an agreed way, in general, to do optimisation for speakers that are designed to be listened to off-axis? E.g. be shifting the 0° axis in the spin data to 20° and re-calculate LW, EA, PIR etc. with this new "centre" (of course ignoring that the horizontal "centre" will not have changed in the vertical data)?
 

wowo101

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Really similar to the LS50

Yes, astonishingly similar – in fact almost identical to the spin of the LS50 Meta apart from having 2-3 dB more SPL between 2 and 3 kHz (the dip that was mentioned in many LS50 Meta posts).
 

dorirod

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Hello all, thanks to the other discussion thread on EQ, I'm trying my hand at EQ-ing my KEF100. I'm sorry for what may turn out to be a longish post, on an old thread, but I'd appreciate any guidance/help/insight.

This is the first time I'm using REW and I'm really a novice at this so please excuse any evident incompetence.

Thank you to thewas for post #75 (and filter file) and to Maiky76 for post #444 I tried both of those filters. First impressions on some songs it made a huge positive difference (e.g. for Brandi Carlile "The Story" and "The Joke" made those high notes much more tolerable, though I still think those could have been recorded/mastered a lot better), and for others I wasn't sure I liked it (e.g. Chris Cornell on "The Keeper" felt a little less wide, seemed to cut down on echo that made it sound larger, not sure if this is right, just my own impression).

Anyway, I also played with REW to see what it would show me. Here's something with like 15 averages positions on my couch (1/24 smoothing), port was plugged, dust covers on:
KEF_Q100_avg_1-24.PNG

I used the house curve given on this tutorial (I'm sure others have run into this video) and tried to get a set of recommended filters for that house curve, and got this:
KEF_Q100_filters_house_curve_predicted_target.PNGKEF_Q100_filters_house_curve.PNG

I also tried importing the filters mentioned above which gave me these:
KEF_Q100_filters_thewas_predicted_target.PNGKEF_Q100_filters_MAIKY76_predicted_target.PNG

Any thoughts as to what might be optimal filters from my situation? Anything I should be trying differently?

Thank you,
Dori
 

Attachments

  • KEF_Q100_filters_house_curve.PNG
    KEF_Q100_filters_house_curve.PNG
    133.3 KB · Views: 181
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Steve Dallas

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Hello all, thanks to the other discussion thread on EQ, I'm trying my hand at EQ-ing my KEF100. I'm sorry for what may turn out to be a longish post, on an old thread, but I'd appreciate any guidance/help/insight.

This is the first time I'm using REW and I'm really a novice at this so please excuse any evident incompetence.

Thank you to thewas for post #75 (and filter file) and to Maiky76 for post #444 I tried both of those filters. First impressions on some songs it made a huge positive difference (e.g. for Brandi Carlile "The Story" and "The Joke" made those high notes much more tolerable, though I still think those could have been recorded/mastered a lot better), and for others I wasn't sure I liked it (e.g. Chris Cornell on "The Keeper" felt a little less wide, seemed to cut down on echo that made it sound larger, not sure if this is right, just my own impression).

Anyway, I also played with REW to see what it would show me. Here's something with like 15 averages positions on my couch (1/24 smoothing), port was plugged, dust covers on:
View attachment 100330

I used the house curve given on this tutorial (I'm sure others have run into this video) and tried to get a set of recommended filters for that house curve, and got this:
View attachment 100334View attachment 100335

I also tried importing the filters mentioned above which gave me these:
View attachment 100332View attachment 100333

Any thoughts as to what might be optimal filters from my situation? Anything I should be trying differently?

Thank you,
Dori

You are on the right track with the filters REW generated for you after your configuration. One thing to consider is, you do not need that low frequency roll-off in your house curve, as the speakers will roll off on their own. This will result in less aggressive low frequency correction, as you are pulling ~53Hz down to the line and leaving the rest alone.

Here is the house curve I use. As you can see, there is no low frequency roll-off built into the curve:
Sample House Curve - Something Like Harman.png


And here is a quick and dirty corrected version to demonstrate what I mean at the lowest frequency peak at ~46Hz in this case:
Sample PEQ Correction - Something Like Harman.png


I have a pair of Q100 speakers in my living room and I rather like them. I find they sound best with very little toe-in. It helps to naturally roll off the highs a bit, and the dispersion is wide enough to allow for it with little to no imaging penalty.

I hope that helps.
 

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  • Harman -10dB.txt
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Last edited:

dorirod

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Thank you Steve, that helps! I am wondering what's going on with those big dips around 60-70Hz, and around 200Hz, are those room modes in both our cases as they don't seem to show up in Amir's graph? Not sure if the scaling and smoothing is also affecting it.
 

Steve Dallas

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Thank you Steve, that helps! I am wondering what's going on with those big dips around 60-70Hz, and around 200Hz, are those room modes in both our cases as they don't seem to show up in Amir's graph? Not sure if the scaling and smoothing is also affecting it.

It is the room.

I hate to post this spoiler from the review I am busy writing, but take a look at this. The graph shows in-room response of my Dynaudio X18 speakers vs. loaner Philharmonic BMR speakers. You can see the room dominates the sound under 500Hz in my office: both plots track each other closely in the peaks and valleys.

BMR vs X18 Stereo Uncorrected Overlay - Office.png


You could make a good argument for the room dominating the sound under 1000Hz!
 
Last edited:

leeroy 85032

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It is the room.

I hate to post this spoiler from the review I am busy writing, but take a look at this. The graph shows in-room response of my Dynaudio X18 speakers vs. loaner Philharmonic BMR speakers. You can see the room dominates the sound under 500Hz in my office: both plots track each other closely in the peaks and valleys.

View attachment 100486

You could make the a good argument for the room dominating the sound under 1000Hz!
the bmr's sure seem to show a lot more (upper) mid range presence.. and i agree , there's probably a lot of room "sound" from the 1000 k hz on down..
 

dorirod

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I played around some more with the filters (only pair of speakers I got, but can only mess with it when family is out of the house :) In case it helps anyone else with same combo, I found out that lowering the treble on my SMSL AD18 by -2dB helps keep the number of filters small, not to mention that it helps when I don't use EQ. I really wish I could replace the AD18 with something better measuring, and with built-in EQ, but not aware of anything that has all the features, isn't 2-3 different devices, and doesn't cost >$500.

Anything below 500 Hz is probably very specific to my room, but the other points seem to correlate with the original measurement graph.

Preamp: -0.5 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 50.0 Hz Gain -15.0 dB
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 457 Hz Gain -6.6 dB Q 5
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 531 Hz Gain 2.6 dB Q 5
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 655 Hz Gain -2.9 dB Q 5
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 967 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 2.644
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 9582 Hz Gain -2.8 dB Q 1.000


KEF_Q100_HOUSE_ADJ_Treble2.png
 

Steve Dallas

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These are my Q100s in my very large living room. The speakers are stuck in a bookcase next to a wall of windows on one side of the room and sit 5 or 6' apart. The measurement was taken at a recliner directly in front of the speakers, about 12' away.

Believe it or not, this modern receiver has only rudimentary tone controls (bass and treble). I have reduced the bass since this measurement was taken, but have not measured the results. Next time I have the house to myself, I will experiment with bass and treble settings and port plugs to see if I can get it a little closer.

KEF Q100 Stereo Uncorreccted vs Target.png


It is a little difficult to know where to draw the target.
 
Last edited:

dorirod

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These are my Q100s in my very large living room. The speakers are stuck in a bookcase next to a wall of windows on one side of the room and sit 5 or 6' apart. The measurement was taken at a recliner directly in front of the speakers, about 12' away....

My main issue, I couldn't really find any other bookshelves besides Q100 (bought on Amazon for $245) that could actually be put on a bookshelf! Most other "bookshelf" speakers assume your bookcases have an open back and 2 ft of space before the wall, and also your shelves are at least 15in/38cm high and as deep.
 

Steve Dallas

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My main issue, I couldn't really find any other bookshelves besides Q100 (bought on Amazon for $245) that could actually be put on a bookshelf! Most other "bookshelf" speakers assume your bookcases have an open back and 2 ft of space before the wall, and also your shelves are at least 15in/38cm high and as deep.

Yep. I chose these for their size and front ports.

20190304_144303.jpg


20190304_144354.jpg
 

maty

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KEF Q150 measurements. Before and after graphics from Danny Richie upgrades.

KEF Q150... can it get any BETTER?


It seems to be worse than the previous model, the one I have, the KEF Q100, in measurements and in quality of woofer filter components. For a long time I have covered the Q100 front bass-reflex, recovering the bass with the equalizer. EQ + rePhase -> convolution. And other cheap improvements.
 

noviygera

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That hump around 800hz, that is a port resonance (according to GR research), correct? Other than closing the port, any recommended solution?
 

maty

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My modded KEF Q100 has the same problem -> now is sealed. With PEQ I recover the lost bass -> more clear sound and bass.
 

thewas

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My modded KEF Q100 has the same problem -> now is sealed. With PEQ I recover the lost bass -> more clear sound and bass.
But you loose also almost 6dB SPL around the port tuning region, meaning quite higher distortions and IMD when listening at the same volume as before.
 

maty

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This is my cheap second audio system, with my PC. Loudspeakers near wall and nearfield. With orchestral and acoustic recordings I do not need more bass.

Cheap system but the sound is very good, from last month better than ever!
 

noviygera

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maty,
Did you mod the original cabinet? It's very resonant, walls are thin with no damping. Maybe it's the cabinet resonance.
 
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